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Hello all,
Well, since I started this particular discussion, please allow me to give an update.
I have decided to find a mentor versus working on my own.
Fortunately, my first day looking for a mentor last week ended with
success.
I have assisted on several already and realize that my ambition
was ahead of my sense.
I am willing to be a great student. What advise would you give if the real world of appraising doesn't line up with the textbook knowledge I have
received.
Thanks for all your input and know all of you can sleep better knowing
I have listened to the wise and will not bring reproach on this profession.
Sincerely,
Gary Leduc
P.S. Is there a user page as to how to make all the features this board
offers work for us rookies?
Like changing colors, inserting emotions, bold print, etc.
 
Welcome to the appraisal world. Just remember to never stop learning. There is always something new or different. I have been in the field 35 years and I am still leaning. The reason I am on all the chat rooms!!! That has been the most valuable continuing education I have received over the 35 years! So keep reading and keep posting.
 
Gary,

Congratulations!!! I truly hope your mentor/supervisor is honest and ethical and spends the time necessary for you to learn.

As Jo Ann said, this and NAIFA are excellent forum and I've learned more here than any classes or text books.

And... Thank you for easing my mind.
 
Gary-

Dont know how i missed your post the first time around. Glad to see your follow up b/c honestly I didnt know how the hell you were going to pull off what you were wanting to do.

Five years working in the biz including your area and I still learn something new every week. Still need my partner and both my ex mentors to bounce ideas off of as a new situation always arises.

This is truely a perpetual learning biz. Just when you think you have it figured out, it will bite you in the ***.

Thirst for knowledge but be humble, to paraphrase cliff clavin 'Its a dog eat dog world out there and all appraisers are wearing milk bone underwear."

Have fun, wish you success.

MRM
 
Gary:

Everything is simpler than you think
and at the same time more complex
than you imagine.

- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Congratulations:

Here is the advice I would have given you had I seen your first posting and advice I would give anyone trying to find a mentor or deciding what to do about about starting out...... with or without a mentor. I am very impressed with depth of replies and the helpful information. You are commended for stimulating some important thoughts on this subject. I cite particularly the posts by George Hatch as being particularly insightful.

So here, but late, are my thoughts.....

Appraising is more than a body of knowledge. What appraisers know is only part of the picture. Appraising comes with many requirements not the least is a definite skills set that has many facets and variations. Appraisers have to know how to do many things from measure properties accurately to manage schedules and plan inspection trips. Equally important to the appraiser, particularly in today’s business climate, appraising also demands observance of high ethical standards and adherence to moral standards with an emphasis on objectivity and honest exchange. Experience tells us there is little evidence any person can become an authority on acting ethically or morally by absorbing enough moral literature and information on ethical standards. Writing recently in the Wall Street Journal Gordon Marino, professor of philosophy at St. Olaf College states. “ You can memorize Kant and still be a moral dunce. As Aristotle taught us, moral percipience and judgment are not the product of reading moral treatises and applying them to case histories. Aristotle counsels that if you need moral guidance seek out a person who has succeeded in living a moral life rather than someone who has succeeded in memorizing moral arguments.”

Like the proverbial three-legged stool, appraising then, stands firmly on three essentials, knowledge, skills and attitude particularly as it applies to ethical standards. For most of those advancing through the educational and training development system, the key factor fitting the parts of the three-legged stool together is the intercession of a mentor

The simple reality, which is all too often unmentioned, is that to become a competent appraiser one must work directly under the guidance of an experienced appraiser. Let’s take a simple example. Measuring a property and defining the room count should be the simplest of exercises and something very easily learned from taking a real estate course. After all, the American National Standard for Single-Family Residential Buildings (ANSI standard book Z765-1996) on measuring is only 11 pages long. In any group of appraisers, however, seldom is there unanimity in the approach to measuring or for that matter agreement on room definition. There are, then, elements of measuring a property and defining rooms that depend on experience and in some cases if derived from local market conditions depend on a variety of analytical methods. As it turns out, what seems to be simple to the beginning appraiser is more difficult in practice and in fact is more of a skill that is improved upon by practice and experience.

Whenever there are skills involved, the learning process is made more difficult. No one can become a good skier or make progress in any skill-related activity without the input and assistance of a good coach. So it is with methodology. In my experience no text or for that matter no appraisal instructor has ever been instructive enough on the subject of adjustments. Neat examples make the process seem simple in application. In practice, however, this is not the case and it turns out there are many avenues to derive adjustments and in some cases no method at all except good logical judgment. As in measuring, experience counts, and methods join the pieces of the puzzle that must be assembled before proceeding into the profession as a real estate appraiser. This extra ingredient to the process is being lost as time goes by and can only be restored by good coaching and mentoring of an experienced appraiser.

That said, and you seem to be in agreement, how can you find a mentor?

There are several reasons appraisers do not and cannot mentor.

1. Liability concerns
2. Concerns about training the competition and loss of proprietary information, methods and client lists
3. Privacy issues where the appraiser works from their home and does not feel comfortable bringing someone into their home
4. No time to train, appraisers are too busy.

How do you meet these concerns? Going beyond the basic educational requirements can neutralize the liability issue. A better-educated trainee is less of a risk.A non-compete agreement may be legal in your state. Draft a simple agreement. Look on the Internet under “non compete” and you will find a lot of information.

The privacy issue is just that, very individual. You should speak frankly with the appraiser and sound them out on this issue. If it seems to be a stumbling block, agree to meet for coffee when reports are reviewed and work at your home.

Lastly appraisers are too busy. Remember that to be successful, the mentor/ trainee relationship is based on economics. At base, the mentor is rewarded in the fee split for training. The trainee takes the difference in education. If you can add some balance to this equation by bringing more to the table, you have leg up. For instance, in California only 2.5% of appraisers are under 30. Because of the “graying” of appraiser many are not as up to date as they should be in technology. Presuming you are head of the curve, you could bring some expertise to bringing the mentor’s office up a level in productivity by technology. Appraisers are saving time with map programs, flood programs, computer data research etc.

Finally, where there is supervision involved, a mentor cannot take you on as an independent contractor. That means if they pay you money and supervise you, they have to pay taxes on you. A way around this is simple. You sign up with a temporary help agency and the mentor pays them. They take care of the taxes and the mentor has no headaches etc. It may take some doing to find a temp agency that does not have a by the hour mentality but you should be able to find one. Get them to agree to base their rates on the amounts you are paid.

Lastly the rules for finding mentor are the same as those for finding a significant other in your life. Often you hear single people decry not finding a person with whom to share their life. For them, the advice is to look within and decide they want to date. Some people think they are ready to date but they really are not. Look within. There are two kinds of people in this world, sheep and sheep dogs. You sound like a sheep dog, one who wants to get on with show and maybe run the show. Well, for a while, you are going to have to be a sheep and be led. It is hard to accept. But when you think it through and you accept that you need and want a mentor, you will be surprised about how readily a mentor will come in to your life. Next, in order to find the perfect person in your life, you need to let everyone know you are looking. Network, go to meetings of appraisers, go to CE classes. When you meet someone let them know you are looking for someone to help you. Tell all your friends and relatives. Someone will know an appraiser and speak in your behalf. Just like those people that like to arrange blind dates, there is someone out there…. Lastly if you want to meet someone, you have to date. The person who might become your lasting significant other might see you dating someone else and everyone compares, thinks well if he or she dates her/or him maybe they will date me. So if you are doing odd jobs for this appraiser and that appraiser, sooner or later someone will notice and want to take you on full time.

So it is not easy to find a mentor and it is sure not easy to find someone to share a life with but it all starts within. To find a significant other, you have to want to find one; the same is so for finding a mentor, you have to want to find a mentor. Once you have made up your mind, you will be amazed how easy it is after all.

I am publishing a three-part article in Appraisal Today on Mentoring. The second article is in the October Edition and the Third and last will be in November. You can get individual copies from the Appraisal Today website. There is lot of information on the Internet on appraiser liability issues. You really need to learn more about this issue. For instance start with http://www.kyappraisersboard.com/pdf/Liability.PDF If you understand why the liability issue looms so large to appraisers, you can help overcome the concerns.

Good luck to you.
 
How about adding one more leg to that stool. ETHICS! The Ethics section is the FIRST SECTION in USPAP...for a godd reason. If an appraiser is not ethical...nothing else really matters.
 
Amen! Can I get a witness?
 
Sadly, mandatory USPAP classes do nothing to change the ethics of many appraisers. I takes professional pride. Most appraisers would rather chase the dollar than worry about ethics.
 
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