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Retrospective Values And Prospective Values

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George-

I think you added some more info on your current assignment while I was writing my short reply (LOL!).

Yeah, in the case you describe, I don't think an EA is reasonable either.
 
Now, the only remaining problem with using an HC in that case is to make sure it meets the HC's usage-requirements. I cannot HC an impossible or implausible event unless the HC is "clearly required" for (a) purposes of reasonable analysis, (b) legal reasons, or (c) purposes of comparison.

When the SOW for an assignment includes answering the question of what's the value if we build this project then I think it's safe to say the use of the HC is warranted - regardless if I think it will come about - on the basis of being clearly required for the purposes of reasonable analysis. I can't answer that question - which is a legitimate question to ask - without the HC.

Indeed, some HCs not only never come into being, but they *can't* come into being. (For example) they're sometimes used in retrospective assignments where the situation never did come into being - those determinations can be made without any guesswork or assumptions. So IMO "possible or plausible" doesn't necessarily even comprise one of the tests for the use of an HC.

So on a concepts and principles basis, exceptions to the rule would tend to undermine that rule. Meaning, if these "subject to" situations *ever* fail to come to fruition then categorizing them as being sure enough to be an EA instead of an HC becomes really problematic. The same cannot be said for characterizing them as an HC - AFAICT that rationale invariably holds up whether the condition does or doesn't come to fruition.


If something exists now then that's a strong indication that it will continue to exist. When Toll Bros. are planning a subdivision the level of confidence that it will exist in that future form as of that future date is arguably less certain.



Regardless of the label or nomenclature being used to characterize the basis of the analysis what remains is that the important thing is to disclose the parameters of that "basis" so that the readers can understand the associated limitations that go along with the results. So to that extent I would otherwise say that we're squabbling over trivia. Geek talk.
 
I do not consider the characterization of that prospective value as hinging on an EA to be settled science
I am just repeating what our STATE said in the 2013 "Day with the Board" - Unfortunately Statement 4 is silent upon whether an EA or an HC would be required. Also, let's be clear. Proposed construction where you assume that as of the (current) date of appraisal, the building exists (when it does not) then clearly you have to have an HC - it is contrary to what exists.

But when you do a PROSPECTIVE appraisal with a FUTURE date of appraisal, then AS OF THE DATE OF APPRAISAL (out there in the future) those improvements are done, they will exist, and they therefore, are not subject to a hypothetical and are not contrary to what exists on that date (assuming your forecast was correct). They are subject to that FORECAST being correct and USPAP clearly states that you must have a limiting condition that clarifies you cannot be held accountable for unforeseen or unforeseeable issues. Clear...as mud?
 
I need to put this part first:

(BTW and before someone asks - do not assume any other instructions from your client or intended users in reference to the above beyond providing opinions of retrospective or prospective values with effective dates that are not contemporaneous with the engagement and report dates.)

How would you answer these questions, and why?

Q1: you have an assignment to provide a retrospective value on a property with a prior effective date of 2005. When you express that value conclusion in your report it will be in terms of:

b) 2005 dollars with no adjusting for present value
Because I did not assume the client asked for present value, as stated in the instructions above.


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Q2: you have an assignment to provide a prospective value on a property with a future effective date of 2017. When you express that value conclusion in your report it will be in terms of:

b) 2017 dollars with no adjusting for present value
Because I did not assume the client asked for present value, as stated in the instructions above.


My comment: future projections include projected increases and/or decreases in both expenses and income. Inflation is/can be part of the projection so that the value opinion arrived at is considered to represent the future value in future dollars. Because I did not assume the client asked for present value, as stated in the instructions above.

FOLLOW DIRECTIONS - too hard for some.



.
 
Even with the Retrospective value,

You are using the EA that the building or property you are inspecting today, was substantially similar on the effective date of value, but you don't know, if it was better or worse, you have to EA that retrospective value. You have to know if additions or improvements were made between today and the effective date. You have to assume that as of the effective date, not today, that there were no external influences that would have impacted value, that have now been corrected or cleaned up. It's much more than just picking old comps.

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But when you do a PROSPECTIVE appraisal with a FUTURE date of appraisal, then AS OF THE DATE OF APPRAISAL (out there in the future) those improvements are done, they will exist, and they therefore, are not subject to a hypothetical and are not contrary to what exists on that date (assuming your forecast was correct). They are subject to that FORECAST being correct and USPAP clearly states that you must have a limiting condition that clarifies you cannot be held accountable for unforeseen or unforeseeable issues. Clear...as mud?

I don't think there's any gap in understanding between us. I think we both understand exactly what the other is saying. I just don't agree with that rationale.

I think that if we acknowledge that the HCs it takes to bring a "subject to" into an "as is" absolutely WILL NOT OCCUR xx% of the time then saying we have reason to believe that any one of them will exist except we can't be certain becomes problematic.

I mean, what if that xx% amounted to 35% or 50% or 75% of the HCs? Which under certain development analyses actually could occur.

Let's say an appraiser was given an assignment to consider 3 different "subject to" proposals and come up with a Prospective Value for each of them. In at least THAT circumstance the very highest that xx% could be would only be 33%. Are we still so certain of the outcome we can call that an EA instead of an HC?

If so, I don't see how.
 
WRT the retrospective value, I agree - you have to use an EA about the subject attributes, which I do every single time I perform one of those assignments.

As I see it, the difference between the use of an EA with a retrospective or a prospective on an existing structure is that with the retrospective you have proof that it existed in the past, and with the prospective you have proof it exists now. So that default exists as the basis for the EA. This is not the case for a "subject to" that by definition will require an HC just to come into existence as such.
 
Subject to and a prospective appraisal are different . A prospective appraisal is forecasting what the property will be worth in X months or years. Subject to completion appraises it what it would be worth on current effective date as if it were complete. I imagine those who forecast would have to research economic trends and look to past cycles of trends as they tend to repeat. A low interest rate cycle does not last forever and high prices are typically followed by a period of cooling off, it would be a more complex assignment than retrospective which just means forensic research .
 
A hypothetical condition is used when something is contrary to "what is".
An extraordinary assumption is used when there is uncertainty about "what is".
(See the USPAP Definitions)

For prospective (future) events, there is no "is". There is just "maybe/might be". If one wants to take it to its logical extreme, since any future event occurring has a level of uncertainty but also has a probability (and therefore, any future event is possible), then nothing is really contradictory to what might exist. Taking it to that extreme isn't practical in the real world.
What is practical is to make a determination if the future event is reasonable or not.
If it is reasonable, then an EA is appropriate (we have some uncertainty about it, but we believe it will occur).
If it is unreasonable, then an HC is appropriate (we believe it will be contrary to what will exist in the future); even though there is inherent uncertainty in that, we've concluded the event is not going to occur.

We make assumptions about future events all the time when concluding a present value and those assumptions don't require an EA or HC, but they do still have a level of uncertainty (A DCF, for example). What we don't (or shouldn't) do is make unreasonable forecasts or assumptions about the future when concluding a present value. We can make these forecasts without an EA or HC because we are valuing the subject as-of current. We have all the necessary information to form the opinion without any special EA or HC tools; our general assumptions are sufficient enough.
If I were doing a prospective value of 2-weeks in the future rather than 2-years in the future, would I use an HC? If I could reasonably assume nothing significant would change in the next 2-weeks, I wouldn't use an HC. I would use an EA, however; even though I'm very confident the risk of something changing in 2-weeks is low, since I'm valuing the property 2-weeks from now rather than "now", I have to alert the client/intended user that if something changes in the next two 2-weeks, it could affect results.

Some prospective assignments warrant an HC. I did not consider the possibility that George raised: the project isn't feasible based on what we know now. If it isn't feasible, then it shouldn't go forward. Since it shouldn't but the client wants me to value the subject as-if it did go forward, that is an unreasonable assumption. I'm certain (or sufficiently confident) that my "should not go forward" conclusion is correct, so if the client wants me to value the property contrary to this, I'll need an HC (and the HC needs to pass the USPAP HC use-requirements).
Conversely, if the project is feasible, and the market evidence supports that the project would go forward, then at that point I (Denis) don't need an HC to consider if the project will be completed; it is reasonable to conclude it will. And, assuming the costs are in-line and the schedule makes sense, it is reasonable to conclude that it will be completed at the budget and within the schedule. All I need is an EA to alert my client that since this is a value in the future, my assumption that the budget will be met and the project finished on-schedule is an assumption and if it doesn't happen that way, results could be affected.
If one of those components is unreasonable, then I need to change the cost-forecasts or alter the project's schedule so that what I do conclude remains reasonable. If the client won't allow that, I have to determine if an HC is appropriate, because now an EA isn't.

In the feasibility study (let's assume 3 competing uses), I'm not sure that the appraiser would need an HC to analyze each proposed use if the assignment calls for a contrast and compare analysis between the uses, with the appraiser then concluding which use is the most feasible. The comparison of the three competing uses is not the assignment result- the comparison component is part of the analysis. The conclusion of which use is the best is the assignment result. That wouldn't need an HC (IMO) if the assumptions were reasonable and the appraiser concluded that is how the market would react. I'd use an EA.

But, that's my opinion. I'm fine with the "it isn't settled science" assertion. I used to think prospective assignments always needed an HC (some years ago); I've obviously changed my opinion.
I do think some prospective assignments need an HC. I think George has made that clear. I just don't think all prospective assignments need an HC (I think most don't; or, at least, those which I've been exposed to).

And, yes, this is inside-baseball (geek talk) but the use of an EA or HC may impact how some of our clients can use the information. So what we decide to call it may have meaning outside of the academic debate. :cool:
 
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Let's say an appraiser was given an assignment to consider 3 different "subject to" proposals and come up with a Prospective Value for each of them. In at least THAT circumstance the very highest that xx% could be would only be 33%. Are we still so certain of the outcome we can call that an EA instead of an HC?

If so, I don't see how.
I'm just saying.... its the way our state board sees it.
 
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