Revisions: water heater, smoke & CO detectors...local code

[Gingerman]

At the start of 2020 I had 1 revision request asking me to comment on the smoke & carbon monoxide detectors.

Have not had any requests to comment on these items since that 1 at the start of 2020.

Well, I just recieved a revision request asking me:
Please comment if the water heater is double strapped or if required to be by local code
Please comment if smoke and CO detectors installed or if required to be by local code

I have pictures of smoke and carbon monoxide detectors and I just revisited the subject to obtain photos of the water heater that was located in the crawl space.

My question is about commenting on local code. Home was built in 1974. Water heater replaced 3 or 4 years ago. According to my buddy at the County Code Department, the code that was in effect when the water heater was installed is the code that applies, not the code in effect now. Code this and code that......I feel like I should answer this in the least direct way as possible in attempt to keep myself out any possible liability.

I am pretty good at providing a satisfactory comment that doesn't necessarily answer their question or put me in a situation that I am liable for. I still would like to hear opinions, comments, wording, and any other advice anyone may have.

 

[Sadie]

At the start of 2020 I had 1 revision request asking me to comment on the smoke & carbon monoxide detectors.

Have not had any requests to comment on these items since that 1 at the start of 2020.

Well, I just recieved a revision request asking me:
Please comment if the water heater is double strapped or if required to be by local code
Please comment if smoke and CO detectors installed or if required to be by local code

I have pictures of smoke and carbon monoxide detectors and I just revisited the subject to obtain photos of the water heater that was located in the crawl space.

My question is about commenting on local code. Home was built in 1974. Water heater replaced 3 or 4 years ago. According to my buddy at the County Code Department, the code that was in effect when the water heater was installed is the code that applies, not the code in effect now. Code this and code that......I feel like I should answer this in the least direct way as possible in attempt to keep myself out any possible liability.

I am pretty good at providing a satisfactory comment that doesn't necessarily answer their question or put me in a situation that I am liable for. I still would like to hear opinions, comments, wording, and any other advice anyone may have.

Code should be pretty easy to find. Here, water heaters have had to be double strapped for decades and the CO/smoke detectors are different. Imbedded in our code here is that detectors have to be brought up to current code at time permits for any project are pulled.

 

[Gingerman]

Upon further research, I was able to address the revisions.

"The water heater was not seismically secured/double strapped at time of inspection (see photograph addendum). This is not a requirement in the State of XXXXXXX nor the subject's County."
"At time of inspection, smoke and carbon monoxide detectors were present (see photograph addendum)."

I was able to find the answer to water heaters. Thankfully they had smoke and CO detectors, allowing me to avoid stating whether they are/aren't required, because I couldn't find an exact answer to that question. I know we have CO Detector requirements but couldn't find what exactly those requirements are and whether or not those hypothetical requirements applied to my subject. I also know we have smoke detector requirements and I think I found the area/section where the requirements are listed....but finding a requirement that applied to my property in that section is a different story. Either way I know I can defend myself on the water heater statement and I didnt put myself in any situation where I could be liable for the other statement.

I attached a pdf that some may find useful in the future. I didn't solely rely on this because it isn't an official document provided from my county/state but it did align with what I was able to find for my state so I would THINK other states would also match up. If you do ever use the pdf attached, please verify what it says for your area and add that verification to your workfile....just in case you ever need to CYA, you can cover your ***!!

 

[Fernando]

Clients usually require me to indicate whether smoke and CO detector are in house (CO detector was signed into law by Republican governor Arnold Schwarzwneggar).
Fortunately client not asking me if installed correctly according to code especially with water heater having double strapped done correctly.

 

[Gingerman]

Code should be pretty easy to find. Here, water heaters have had to be double strapped for decades and the CO/smoke detectors are different. Imbedded in our code here is that detectors have to be brought up to current code at time permits for any project are pulled.

Thanks for the comment. At first i didn't want to provide a clear cut answer to the water heater question because (here at least) things like that can be grandfathered in.

An example would be....a water heater installed in 1990 uses the whatever codes were in effect in 1990. Assuming a water heater would ever last from then until now, and you ask if it meets local code, your asking if it meets local code as of the date it was installed, not current codes bc it is grandfathered into any current code requirements. THIS is what made me feel uneasy about providing any statement about codes.

The item embedded into your codes was also a concern but I was unable to find anything indicating that was the case and the guy I know who works in the building codes department confirmed there wasn't. He actually started complaining about home inspectors and when they make comments about something not being done properly (but that something that "wasn't done properly" is allowed to be grandfathered in so it was and is still in the eyes of local codes done properly bc its grandfathered in. Once replacement is needed, then it would need to meet current codes). Him telling me that really made me feel uneasy about stating whether something does or doesn't meet local codes hahaha. I understood what he was saying but still, too many possibilities at play to feel confident about making a clear cut statement whether something is or isn't.

 

[Sadie]

Thanks for the comment. At first i didn't want to provide a clear cut answer to the water heater question because (here at least) things like that can be grandfathered in.

An example would be....a water heater installed in 1990 uses the whatever codes were in effect in 1990. Assuming a water heater would ever last from then until now, and you ask if it meets local code, your asking if it meets local code as of the date it was installed, not current codes bc it is grandfathered into any current code requirements. THIS is what made me feel uneasy about providing any statement about codes.

The item embedded into your codes was also a concern but I was unable to find anything indicating that was the case and the guy I know who works in the building codes department confirmed there wasn't. He actually started complaining about home inspectors and when they make comments about something not being done properly (but that something that "wasn't done properly" is allowed to be grandfathered in so it was and is still in the eyes of local codes done properly bc its grandfathered in. Once replacement is needed, then it would need to meet current codes). Him telling me that really made me feel uneasy about stating whether something does or doesn't meet local codes hahaha. I understood what he was saying but still, too many possibilities at play to feel confident about making a clear cut statement whether something is or isn't.

Every state is different. Here on the west coast because of earthquakes the water heater strapping has been a thing for a really long time. The detector requirement required digging kind of deep to get. In the end, I found the link in a Fire Marshal's website.

 

[Fernando]

Thanks for the comment. At first i didn't want to provide a clear cut answer to the water heater question because (here at least) things like that can be grandfathered in.

An example would be....a water heater installed in 1990 uses the whatever codes were in effect in 1990. Assuming a water heater would ever last from then until now, and you ask if it meets local code, your asking if it meets local code as of the date it was installed, not current codes bc it is grandfathered into any current code requirements. THIS is what made me feel uneasy about providing any statement about codes.

The item embedded into your codes was also a concern but I was unable to find anything indicating that was the case and the guy I know who works in the building codes department confirmed there wasn't. He actually started complaining about home inspectors and when they make comments about something not being done properly (but that something that "wasn't done properly" is allowed to be grandfathered in so it was and is still in the eyes of local codes done properly bc its grandfathered in. Once replacement is needed, then it would need to meet current codes). Him telling me that really made me feel uneasy about stating whether something does or doesn't meet local codes hahaha. I understood what he was saying but still, too many possibilities at play to feel confident about making a clear cut statement whether something is or isn't.

Are you sure your client is asking you to be the code police. All my lenders just want to know if the detectors or dbl strapped are in the house.
I tell my borrowers that - "I will take the photos and I'm not concern if you follow the code." Never had a problem with client.

 

[Gingerman]

Are you sure your client is asking you to be the code police. All my lenders just want to know if the detectors or dbl strapped are in the house.
I tell my borrowers that - "I will take the photos and I'm not concern if you follow the code." Never had a problem with client.

Honestly idk. It was the "or required to be by local code" that made the wheels start turning. I see those words and I instantly think "liability"

Also I probably was over thinking it given this was the 1st time anyone had EVER asked me those questions with the "or required to be" at the end.

Now that I finished and sent it off I KNOW I was overthinking it lol but oh well. the info I obtained while over thinking it will probably be useful one day.
Still quite mad they decided to ask this considering how many clients I worked with last year and how many appraisals I did without ever hearing anything remotely related.

 

[Restrain]

Last time we got a recision about strapping a hot water heater, we replied that the only hot water heater that were strapped in our state were in manufactured homes for transit as there were no earthquakes. They stopped asking.

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

I have been commenting on these things routinely, since it's easier than reading some 11 page letter to see if they require it or not.