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Second Time Around

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Steve

Thanks Steve, I knew about the exam requirement, but removing the requiremnet for the exam does not eliminate the requirement for the course or the equivalent, at least, that is my understanding.

Am I wrong?

Regards

Tom Hildebrandt GAA
 
Tom,

The AQB memo by Jim Park is what I was referring to, and, I thought I saw something from North Carolina as well?? You are most likely correct, you usually are well on top of such subjects. I guess I have the same problem with this as some states apparently do. Unelected, non government personnel of an organization with quaisi legal authority dictating to the states that they must change their laws? Come on. That surely was not what the framers of the constitution had in mind. But what the heck, Laws are ignored all the time. Look at New Jersey for the latest example. I expect we will see more of this as time goes by. This was also alluded to in the letter from NAR to the GAO. Fun to watch at least.

Don Clark, IFA
 
Don

Un-elected, non-governmental , quasi - legal authorities telling states what to do?

What about un-elected non-governmental quasi legal authorities telling appraisers what to do?

Sorry, the belly aching by state regulators that the AF, AQB, ASB are stepping on their toes does not pass the stink test. If the regulators were being even handed, applying standards uniformly, ethically and consistently with USPAP and representing appraisers as members of the public), the AF, ASB and AQB would not be asking for standardization. The states that are doing the most crying are the ones that are the most abusive, well, at least they are being led by the State of North Carolina which is the most abusive in process and one of those acting unethically and with the least knowledge of USPAP.

You will not find anyone more oriented to states rights than Tom Hildebrandt (well maybe Austin and a couple of others), but if we are to have regulation, I want some standardized standards and standardized enforcement. If the crying regulators are ready to disband, and say lets get rid of regulation, great. But what I am hearing is they just do not want anyone telling them what to do. The NCAB is proud of its "autonomy" (the ability to reject any input from others) and jealously wants to preserve their power.

For those who think the NCAB is not abusive in what they think is there god given right to prosectute, Please note that one of the NCAB proposed rule changes is that " a licensee shall include with their written response copies of any documents requested in a Letter of Inquiry." Any documents means any documents; no limitations. The Supreme Court of the United States does not have this authority nor does the President of the United States. I say the NCAB has the authority to come and look at my workfile at any time without notice. (I personally think that looking at the work file with reasonable notice is adequate but the "without notice" is the current rule.) That is enough authority. If they want copies of my workfile, they can make them. Heck, some of my workfiles are in excess of four boxes of material, not mentioning the electronic imported data files. Making copies of the workfile alone would cost me literally hundreds of dollars. I should not and do not have to provide these as a matter of convenience to the NCAB.

If the investigators, who are appraisers, and who the NCAB say are acting as merely fact finders, not appraisers, ignoring USPAP and any requirements to document their work in accordance with USPAP, they can damn well dig through the file and figure out what they want without my help and at their own expense. If they want to come to my office as professionals (competently, with impartiality, independence and objectivity) , we can discuss the appraisal issues, I will help them find the appropriate documents, but still the copies are on their dime. After all, it is my money that pays their salaries and their investigations.

If they want my tax records or billing statements, my marriage certificate, hotel receipts, letters to my attorney, love letters to my wife, etc, etc. I say they need to file some charges to start some sort of judicial proceeding, obtain a legal probable cause and then get on with collecting data under the law. Not of this should be at the whim of an investigator or attorney who believes they are autonomous.

This is the kind of blatant disregard of the rights of an appraiser that reflects the true character of the NCAB. They have the largest staff of any licensing board in the country, they have the largest bankroll, ant this is the quality of rule changes we get. Total and blatant disregard of appraisers and our rights.

Regards

Tom Hildbrandt GAA
 
Tom: You have a private message on this subject:
Austin
 
Tom,

With all due respect, and by one who has watched your trials and tribulations for a long time, and agree that you have been perversly and unfairly treated, I am speaking to a larger issue than just North Carolina. We are talking about the Federal and State Constitutions that vest the power to legislate in the Congress of the United States and in state legislatures, general assemblies, etc., not in unelected bodies of a private entity.

The only quasi legal authority that the federal law FIRREA gave to the Appraisal Foundation was in writing and promulgating the Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice. Copyright gives the foundation the legal authority to decide who teaches USPAP. The states have to make the decision of whether or not to require their appraisers to abide by and be bound by USPAP or not. Even the foundation will tell you that. And, FIRREA only applies to those transactions that are federally related regarding those entitities that are named in FIRREA as such.

I know you will most likely carry your disdain of North Carolina politics and the regulatory board for the rest of your life. I would wish you a better future than that.

Don Clark, IFA
 
Don

I know we have a difference of opinion regarding the respectability of the NCAB.

What I do not understand is your comments regarding the role of the AF and Firrea. These are two different issues. The AF (and the AQB/ASB) were vested by the government and the professional trade organizations to provide uniform standards and qualifications for appraisers. Firrea was vested with the charge to make sure states enacted legislation creating regulatory agencies that, at minuimum, required appraisers in federally related transactions to comply with the uniform standards and qualifications. The states had no choice but to accept USPAP for federally related transactions. (Actually, they could chose not to adopt USPAP, but then no appraisals for federally related transactions could be done by appraisers in the state) Some states, such as NC, have moved beyond just regulating federal transactions by adopting USPAP for all appraisal services covered by Standard 1, 2 and 3. In other words, in NC, USPAP compliance is mandatory for all real property services, not just federally related transctions, covered by these standards.

The problem is that now established, the NCAB does not like the policy and direction of the AF (and the AQB/ASB); they want the freedom to go where they wish. You are echoing that sentiment, they feel that they should have the right to decide what are appropriate standards.

These regulators do not want to be regulated. I can understand that concern, but the lack of consistent enforcement and instruction, a function in the control of the states, has lead the AF to be more strict. If the states had done their job, if they were consistent and were willing to accept the guidelines as set forth by the AF, there would be no need for increased regulation. The NCAB, and others of their ilk, feel that having been created to enforce USPAP, that they can now reinterpret USPAP to meet whatever their preconcieved notion is good or bad work product. They also feel they can provide case by case exception for USPAP compliance. They seem to feel that it is ok for a "good appraiser" to just agree with a client that he does not have to comply and he can then do appraisals or reviews without concern by the NCAB. A bad appraiser apparently does not have the same lattitude. He must comply literally with every word and phrase in USPAP, taken even out of context of the use of the appraisal. They mix and match USPAP (and other guidelines such as Freddie/Fannie) to get convictions. For example, an appraiser doing work for a legal client, totally unrelated to residential lending work, would be expected to perform those services in compliance with Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae guidelines. Whatever it takes to get the conviction.

They do not want anyone telling them that their interpretation is wrong, because they believe they are on a divine mission to get rid of bad appraisers. Bad appraisers are those they say are bad appraisers regardless of whether they comply with USPAP. If they disagree with their opinions, even if you follow recognized methods and techniques, and comply fully with USPAP, if the NCAB staff does not like your conclusion, you are a bad appraiser. Those appraisers who they consider to be good appraisers may not have even attempted to comply with USPAP, and miserepresented data and formed misleading opinions, these good appraisers go unpunished and without any admonishment.

My case, and the other appraisers who testified against me, is a perfect example. I did a text book appraisal of a condmnation property. I researched the property history for thirty years. I showed condemnation blight and appraised it appropriately under standards. The complaintant, who had a 5 year property history analysis by supplemental standards, a three year under core USPAP, admitted under oath before the NCAB staff attorney and Deputy Director that he failed to do this analysis. But they never opened a case on him, Why? Because he was a good appraiser, and other appraisers told the board he was a good appraiser. I was persecuted because these same folks told the board I was a bad appraiser. They believed the low ball values presented by the good appraisers because of theior credentials and accepted at face value their statements that I overvalued the property. This despite the fact that my lower value range matched the properties current market history and my higher value, fully reflecting blight issues was only 30% higher.

In a related action, this good appraiser who testified against me at trial said he did appraisal reviews of my work product to help his client prepare for trial. He told his client my highest and best use was wrong, and gave a list of reasons which have been subsequently were shown to be false at my hearing. He told them my methods were wrong and adjustments were wrong. He said he did these things in writing to the NCAB and in deposition for trial. He also freely admitted that he did them outside of USPAP because he felt he had a right and obligation to help his client. The NCAB staff knew all of this, they heard his testimony at my hearing and heard him admit to these failures . Yet the NCAB staff said that is not what he did at the probable cause hearing , he did not really do a review, all he did was point out differences between the reports (as opposed to expressing an opinion on the quality of the work product) and that he was free to do these work outside of USPAP. This is BS and any appraiser knows it. This is selective enforcement, and it is what the NCAB wants to keep on doing.

The staff provides misleading and factually incorrect probable cause summaries on a routine basis to the board members. The idea is to let the "good appraisers" off and convict the "bad appraisers". The problem is that no one knows what criteria the board is using to decide who is a good or bad appraiser.

Actually, I am beginning to believe I do know several criteria. You are a bad appraiser if you are critical of the board, and every appraiser in the State of North Carolina knows it. Another is that good appraisers are long term friend of the Deputy Directors. If you turn in your competition regularly, you are a good appraiser, even if your work product is absymal and does not even purport to comply with USPAP.

We will have definitive proof on this issue of selective judgement in the near future.

Sorry Don, but we certainly disagree on these issues. I am all for states rights, but the states, like NC, need to be doing the job impartially, objectively and competently, not just independently and arbitrarily, in order to get my vote for less federal regulation.

Regards

Tom Hildebrandt GAA
 
Furthermore, what Tom is saying is occurring all over the country. Tom's situation is not isolated. According to IAAC they have defended over 120 cases. They currently have 60 cases pending. This problem is extensive and not reduced to the isolated cases discussed on this forum. Most appraisers are not bold enough to tell you what is going on. Most are frightened and severally intimidated. No one wants to come out in the open. But this crap is going to bust out big time soon enough.

IAAC said when they first started bring this issue to light, they ran into disbelief within the appraisal community. Just as we did for years on this forum. Most appraisers refuse to understand the depth of this problem until it happens to them or someone they know directly. I believe the problem is growing. Thereby, the Feds should draw in these people. They need to step in now.

It was explained many of these Boards go through growth stages. Furthermore, the more they get away with, the bolder they become. State's having problems will only have more problems. It is evident in case loads.

IAAC said out of the cases they defended, in the problem states, they have never won at the formal hearing stage. However, they pointed out no one ever wins. The good news was, all appeals have over turned these Boards decisions. So far none of these bazaar board decisions have stood in court. Currently there have been about 12 reversals. What does that tell you about the quality of the legal advice these guys are getting?

I do not know what we expect as a profession when we allow some of these seats to be seeded via political favor. Know one ever heard of most of the people on Illinois's Board prior to being appointed. It is not like the Governor sought the best qualified. At least in our State.

I full heartedly believe the federal government needs to step in fast before there is no uniformity in the USPAP. The State of Illinois is up to it again. They are trying to rewrite USPAP for the sole purpose of convicting appraisers quick, fast and cheap. And it is as Tom says, it is the undefined "bad appraisers". No one knows how they mystically determine this since it is not based on USPAP or other known appraisal literature.

Steve Vertin
 
<span style='color:darkblue'>
"...And it is as Tom says, it is the undefined "bad appraisers."
No one knows how they mystically determine this since it is
not based on USPAP or other known appraisal literature..."
-- S. Vertin

We have found, for one, Competitors who are not also good friends, or past employees or employers, are defined as "bad appraisers." There are other definitions as well which others and me may be elaborating on in the future here on this forum.

Steve, I read the account of your experience with federal banking regulators recently in VALUATION magazine. I will have some posted comments before long. I will go ahead and say this though: I believe one of the reasons you have yet to further pursue the situation is out of a concern for what you may find, and the potential harm it may do for a suspected response to become a known response -- a proven paper tiger is worse than a suspected one. I have run into the same dilemma, and found my worst fears realized -- it appears no one (e.g., regulators and perhaps Congress) much gives a GD.

But I am also strangely inspired and hopeful. All of this is interrelated -- Enron, et al., and banking regulators, the SEC, and much more all have a common root source of dysfunction. It is going to be busted out real soon too. Defining the problem has proven to be the first step towards solutions -- we have seen this at the NCAB recently. They're reeling with the latest developments, and things there will absolutely never be the same. Also to be posted in the near future is some commentary on what has actually occurred there partly through new and additional appointments (unprecedented in this state). It is truly monumental as I know you are aware, but others here on the forum will come to understand the magnitude of what has occurred.

I am convinced we are learning well from our tribulations and occasional significant victories, and this knowledge and experience is developing into a model for future solutions to existing problems. In short and simple, we are winning. The Country is winning. While long overdue, it is happening at last -- and it is happening fast, and all indications are that it will continue.

I cannot help have much respect for all those who assume ownership and responsibility for our collective problems. There must be a special place in Heaven...

dcj</span>
 
My original post dealt with:

1. How many instructors are failing the USPAP Certified Instructor Exam(50% +_).

2. How many are failing on the retake, hence the title, "second time around".

3. How we would be outraged if students in our government schools were failing at that rate, and we would probably fire the principal and teachers.

As to the way each state operates it's board/commission, etc. Why do we think as appraisers that we would be any different than any other group or profession?

Most states have differing requirements, investigation, and adjudication of complaints involving Doctors, Lawyers, Dentist, Pharmacist, Nurses, Accountants, Real Estate Brokers and Sales People. Why should we not expect that one state may treat appraisers different in their state as opposed to another? The NCAB hires appraisers as investigators. My state of Virginia probably does not have a single investigator that is an appraiser. They work for the Department of Professional and occupational Regulation that has oversight of over 50 boards. It seems that the NCAB has the money and hires their own. Two different states, two different ways of dealing with the issue. As to USPAP and it's application, that is up to the states to enforce. My state rarely questions such things as adjustments and deals more with hard issues such as fraud, criminal acts, misrepresentation, flipping, and violations of USPAP. Some states get up close and personal, perhaps to personal as regards adjustments and other minutia. Some advocate a federal system. I doubt you have really thought that through. I really do not believe you would want a federal system. Think about it.

Don Clark, IFA
 
Don

I for one believe I have thought this thing through.

Yes I am concerned that so many USPAP instructors failed, that shows that many appraisers havve been taught incorrectly. I am concerned that the NCAB treats standards in such a casual manner by not requiring their investigators to comply with our professional standards. I am concerned that appraisers are not concerned that the NCAB and other boards are not acting ethically (and in some cases, illegally) by having their investigators act illegally.

I do not want further government regulation, but when appraisers say that boards can act unethically, and thumb their noses at the professional body they regulate and say we do not care what you think, we only have to act legally, I want some one with oversight telling them to get it right.

We are different than any other profession that I am aware of, we have a professional standard that tells us what and how to comment on another appraisers work product. So far as I know, no other profession has such a standard. Those who would say the NCAB and other boards are not doing anything differently than any other professional licensing body is just wrong. They are ignoring our professional standards.

the reason many other boards do not address these reports in such minutuia is because they have got it right. Differences in opinion should not be reason for dicisplinary action, fraud and misrepresentation of fact should be the basis for disciplinary action.

Sorry, Don, I have thought it through.

Tom Hildebrandt GAA
 
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