Senate Passes Housing Bill--Does it have the Dodd Bond?

[Hamlet]

Ohio requirements:

Licensed

(3) The two thousand hours of experience required in paragraph (A)(1) of this rule
must be achieved over a period of not less than twenty-four months immediately
preceding the initial filing of the application.

Cert Residential
(3) The two thousand five hundred hours of experience required in paragraph (B)(1)
of this rule must be achieved over a period of not less than twenty-four months
immediately preceding the initial filing of the application.

 

[Mike Phillips]

TJ,

I believe that you are right it is a minimum of 2 years.

Mike, please don't make assumptions that all licensed appraisers are content in their status and are not working to upgrade. Many are, including me, and that was my plan before the latest developments.

I just don't feel that a cert level for FHA is a guarantee that the appraisals will be better. Testing on the FHA criterial will.

You've never seen a post of mine that said all Licensed appraisers are content in their status. What you have seen are statements from me that say - they took the shortest path possible to practicing unsupervised and they have had no motivation (really) to upgrade. I stand by that statement.

Your state appears to be an exception. The question I would raise is when did Ohio increase from 12 to 24 months, if ever. Has it always been 24 months? I don't think so. What was the minimum when you became Licensed?

I posted a link to all the state boards. Tell me how many states are like Ohio. I believe many are NOT - I believe many still require 12 months to earn Licensed level.

Now Ohio has two license levels requiring (1) 2000 hours and 24 months and (2) 2500 hours and 24 months. About 75 appraisals difference, right? I wonder why?

 

[Bama Bayou]

My bold.

Where are you getting this info? According to other sources such as the AI, they say this only applies to new appraisers.

If they wanted to be exact with their wording, why did they use the word certified when referring to Organizations, who offer designations and do not "certify"?

What do they consider proof of education? Passing the test that was required many years ago? A class on FHA guidelines, if so which ones and how many hours are needed?

Do the standards just apply to FHA deals done under this bill, or all FHA loans? (I just received an announcement from FHA looking for bidders on review work advertised to both licensed and certified appraisers).

Not questioning your info CP, just wondering where it is coming from and if you can provide links for more in depth info, because there seems to be many, many gray areas as of now...

SEC. 1404. REVISED STANDARDS FOR FHA APPRAISERS.
Section 202(e) of the National Housing Act (12 U.S.C. 1708(e)) is amended by adding at the end the following:

‘‘(5) ADDITIONAL APPRAISER STANDARDS.—Beginning on the date of enactment of the Federal Housing Finance Regulatory Reform Act of 2008, any appraiser chosen or approved to conduct appraisals for mortgages under this title shall—

‘‘(A) be certified—
‘‘(i) by the State in which the property to be appraised is located; or
‘‘(ii) by a nationally recognized professional appraisal organization; and

‘‘(B) have demonstrated verifiable education in the appraisal requirements established by the Federal Housing Administration under this subsection.’’

Can you give me a link to the AI's interpretation of this that says it's for new appraisers only? For some reason I can't find the word new in this provision. The info I have comes from reading the bill. I also think they are just throwing a meatless bone to the AI. By the way any national organization that starts handing out "certifications" to appraisers in my state is messing with fire, along with any AL licensed appraisers who sign up and state that certification in an appraisal report. The AL board is pretty protective of the word certified as it relates to appraisers and appraisals.

I don't see much grey area. This is a directive that congess is giving to FHA. It will be the law. The people at FHA have no choice but to implement this.

It gives FHA a choice. They can used state certified appraisers, of which there are plenty and they are easily identified, or they can use appraisers certified by a nationally recognized professional appraisal organization, which is not possible since there are none.

Which choice to you think FHA will make?

I think they will require certified only and passing a test. There will be no grandfathering. It may be unfair but there is no provision for it in this bill.

 

[timd354]

My bold.



SEC. 1404. REVISED STANDARDS FOR FHA APPRAISERS.
Section 202(e) of the National Housing Act (12 U.S.C. 1708(e)) is amended by adding at the end the following:

‘‘(5) ADDITIONAL APPRAISER STANDARDS.—Beginning on the date of enactment of the Federal Housing Finance Regulatory Reform Act of 2008, any appraiser chosen or approved to conduct appraisals for mortgages under this title shall—

‘‘(A) be certified—
‘‘(i) by the State in which the property to be appraised is located; or
‘‘(ii) by a nationally recognized professional appraisal organization; and

‘‘(B) have demonstrated verifiable education in the appraisal requirements established by the Federal Housing Administration under this subsection.’’

Can you give me a link to the AI's interpretation of this that says it's for new appraisers only? For some reason I can't find the word new in this provision. The info I have gotten has come from reading the bill.

I don't see much grey area. This is a directive that congess is giving to FHA. It will be the law. The people at FHA have no choice but to implement this.

It gives FHA a choice. They can used state certified appraisers, of which there are plenty is they are easily identified. Or they can use appraisers certified by nationally recognized professional appraisal organization, which is not possible since there are none.
It does not give the FHA a choice, under the statute, they will have to accept appraisals from from an appraiser that qualifies under (i) or (ii) as stated above. There is currently a national organization that has a designation called the CREA (Certified Real Estate Appraiser). That organization is the National Association of Real Estate Appraisers. Out of curiosity, I called them today and they claim to have over 8,000 memebrs and have members in all 50 states, DC, the various U.S. territories and Canada. With this many members and members in every state it would seem that this organization clearly meets the statutory requirment of of a "nationally recognized professional appraisal organization".

Which choice to you think FHA will make?
There is no choice for the FHA to make, the statute specifies what is acceptable and what is not, the FHA is bound to follow the statute as written.

I think they will require certified only and passing a test. There will be no grandfathering. It may be unfair but there is no provision for it in this bill.

You are are correct, the bill contains no provisions for grandfathering. The FHA can also require that a test be passed, but they will not be able to require certified only since the statute clearly allows the use of appraisers who are certified by a "nationally recognized appraisal organization" and the statute does not even express a preference for one qualification over the other.

 

[Hamlet]

You've never seen a post of mine that said all Licensed appraisers are content in their status. What you have seen are statements from me that say - they took the shortest path possible to practicing unsupervised and they have had no motivation (really) to upgrade. I stand by that statement.

Your state appears to be an exception. The question I would raise is when did Ohio increase from 12 to 24 months, if ever. Has it always been 24 months? I don't think so. What was the minimum when you became Licensed?

I posted a link to all the state boards. Tell me how many states are like Ohio. I believe many are NOT - I believe many still require 12 months to earn Licensed level.

Now Ohio has two license levels requiring (1) 2000 hours and 24 months and (2) 2500 hours and 24 months. About 75 appraisals difference, right? I wonder why?

Mike,

Sorry if I misinterpreted your statements that licensed appraisers are content in their status. When you say they took the shortest route possible to practice unsupervised and have no motivation to upgrade, I thought you meant they were content in their status.

I think you may be correct in some cases, but I know you aren’t correct in all cases, certainly not mine.

As far as Ohio requirements, these were the minimum requirements in place when I became licensed.

As far as the difference in the number of hours required between licensed and certified, I assume that is meant to show a distinction in the knowledge between the two levels. If that is your backhand way of saying that makes newly cert superior to a newly licensed, I guess you are right, but please don’t tell me that a newly certified residential appraiser is automatically better or more educated than an experienced licensed appraiser simply by virtue of their cert status.

Obviously there are gaps between the states as to what qualifies for licensed/certification. That is even more reason to require an FHA class and test to be on the FHA roster.

 

[Bama Bayou]

It does not give the FHA a choice, under the statute, they will have to accept appraisals from from an appraiser that qualifies under (i) or (ii) as stated above. There is currently a national organization that has a designation called the CREA (Certified Real Estate Appraiser). That organization is the National Association of Real Estate Appraisers. Out of curiosity, I called them today and they claim to have over 8,000 memebrs and have members in all 50 states, DC, the various U.S. territories and Canada. With this many members and members in every state it would seem that this organization clearly meets the statutory requirment of of a "nationally recognized professional appraisal organization".
You are are correct, the bill contains no provisions for grandfathering. The FHA can also require that a test be passed, but they will not be able to require certified only since the statute clearly allows the use of appraisers who are certified by a "nationally recognized appraisal organization" and the statute does not even express a preference for one qualification over the other.

My bold. It does give them a choice. I missed the part that states they must allow either. It says one or the other is acceptable. Tobias The Cat certifications ain't going to get it.

By the way, the National Association of Real Estate Appraisers has been recognized "nationally" by appraisers for many years. Just follow the link below to find out what they are recognized for.

http://www.chetboddy.com/Pages/ethics.html

And thank you for your legal opinion reqarding the statutory requirements. Not being a lawyer, I have no clue.

 

[Couch Potato]

You are are correct, the bill contains no provisions for grandfathering. The FHA can also require that a test be passed, but they will not be able to require certified only since the statute clearly allows the use of appraisers who are certified by a "nationally recognized appraisal organization" and the statute does not even express a preference for one qualification over the other.

The statute sets the minimum acceptable standards. FHA can set rules that are higher than the standard in the statute, just not lower. If the FHA wants to only take appraisals from Certified General appraisers with 20 years experience, they can do that and be in compliance with the statute.

 

[Bama Bayou]

The statute sets the minimum acceptable standards. FHA can set rules that are higher than the standard in the statute, just not lower. If the FHA wants to only take appraisals from Certified General appraisers with 20 years experience, they can do that and be in compliance with the statute.

That's how I read it. I think that come 10/1 FHA will require certification and a test. If you are licensed you will be out of luck. If you are certified and did not take a test you will be out of luck until a new test is available (that may take a long time). If you and your cat have recently been "certified" by the National Association of Real Estate Appraisers you will be out of luck.

If you are certified and took a test to get on the panel you will be good to go.

 

[Michigan CG]

The statute sets the minimum acceptable standards. FHA can set rules that are higher than the standard in the statute, just not lower. If the FHA wants to only take appraisals from Certified General appraisers with 20 years experience, they can do that and be in compliance with the statute.

Tater, I saw my fees going sky high with your post :new_multi: until you had to put in that pesky 20 year experience thing.....m2:

 

[Roy Courtney]

If you and your cat have recently been "certified" by the National Association of Real Estate Appraisers you will be out of luck.

It would be funny if the NAREA "certified" appraisers were acceptable after all the effort the AI has put into pressuring this appraisal legislation at every stage!