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Short sale comparables?

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opinions like a salesperson (who should be reading people's motivations). It's the principle of substitution.
With all due respect Vivian, the Principle of Substitution applies to the buyers propensity to choose the lesser priced of two equal choices. However, USPAP clearly states that we must, " identify the type and definition of value and, if the value opinion to be developed is market value, ascertain whether the value is to be the most probable price:
in terms of cash; or in terms of financial arrangements equivalent to cash; or in other precisely defined terms; and if the opinion of value is to be based on non-market financing or financing with unusual conditions or incentives, the terms of such financing must be clearly identified and the appraiser’s opinion of their contributions to or negative influence on value must be developed by analysis of relevant market data;"

Saying that the market is defined by the buyers action under the Principle of Substitution is not sufficient to identify the type and definition of value required. USPAP is clear that we must define the type and definition of value to which FNMA has defined it within the required reporting forms. It is the FNMA Market Value definition that clearly states: DEFINITION OF MARKET VALUE: The most probable price which a property should bring in a competitive and open market under all conditions requisite to a fair sale, the buyer and seller, each acting prudently, knowledgeably and assuming the price is not affected by undue stimulus. Implicit in this definition is the consummation of a sale as of a specified date and the passing of title from seller to buyer under conditions whereby: (1) buyer and seller are typically motivated; ..." .

I hold that a bank is not a typically motivated seller regardless of the buyer's actions, acting under the Principle of Substitution. The bank is a reluctant owner that wants out of the home ownership business ASAP. In the case of a short sale, the bank is willing to concede a loss of capital in order not to become an owner. Hardly a typically motivated seller in either case.

In the same FMNA Market Value definition, it states: (5) the price represents the normal consideration for the property sold unaffected by special or creative financing or sales concessions* granted by anyone associated with the sale. I would hold that a short sale or the sale where the bank is concerned only with recovering as much of the amount of the loan plus costs or getting out of the bad debt whatever they can as fast as they can, represents a price that is affected by the sellers motivation and is in essence, the granting of a concession, (often a significant concession) to the buyer in the form of a deep price discount to select this property over another under the Principle of Substitution. Under the definition of value that we are required to use in the FNMA reporting forms, both of these sale situations, IMNSHO, disqualify a bank owned property or a short sale from qualifying as a market sale to be used under the FNMA definition of Market Value.
 
and assuming the price is not affected by undue stimulus.
It is the above phrase that is the root of the issue.

A homeowner selling for less than the mortgage amount may or may not have undue stimulus in their motivation. They may or may not be facing foreclosure. They may or may not need to sell. The range of motivation for a short sale is just as wide as any other sale. (I will grant that the distribution of that range of motivation is different.)

A property being involved in a short sale should have no effect on the appraisal other than in the analysis of the contract. Although the bank is involved in the contract process, it is not an REO sale. The reason short sales are possible is due to the undue stimulus present in an REO situation. Banks will go to great lengths to avoid owning residential real estate.

When REO sale dominate a market, they do indeed set the values in the market place. There is no question about that fact. That does not mean they set Market Value as defined on a URAR. Just because undue stimulus is common does not mean it is not undue stimulus. It is a flaw in the Market Value definition. It is important to deal with that flaw in a report for a property in such a market.
 
In a short sale, the seller is motivated by having to sell is a market where the proceeds will not cover the encumbrance and relies on the willingness of the financing entity to take less than is owed. I do not consider that a "typical" sales situation whereby the seller is typically motivated.
I don’t know why you don’t consider the short sale transaction in which the seller agrees to sign the contract and sell that home not typically motivated seller. The definition says that buyer and seller are typically motivated. It doesn’t say that they are happily motivated. They might be unhappily motivated but they are motivated sell the property on their own free will.
The key word is “motivation”. Motivation means free will. Free will means the buyer or seller is not under “UNDUE INFLUNCE”.
If a mob or gang member put a note on the owner’s door telling him that he must sell his him and get out of there or his family is going to be dead and here is the purchase contract and the sale price, please sign it or else. That is called extortion and if the buyer signed and the house was sold, the value is not market value because the seller was not typically motivated.
If a listing agent hypnotizes a homeowner or get him high by drugs or alcohol and make him to sign the contract, it is not typically motivate.
If the listing agent uses a persuasion technique by fast-talking, false presentation and scare tactics to get a listing from a seller or make a buyer to buy a home, it is not typical motivation.
In the short sale transaction, the homeowner makes the decision to sell the home on his own free will. There is no undue influence on him. There is no inducement or manipulation. He is a facing a market reality and he has an option to let the home foreclosed or he can walk out. But he doesn’t want his credit be tainted. He knows that he is not able to pay the mortgage payment anymore. He still owns the home and has paid the mortgage so far but he cannot do it further. He is not able to refinance and if he wants to sell the home, the market value of the home is going to be more the mortgage amount outstanding. Sadly but wisely from his own free will he calls the lender and tell him that he is not going to be able to pay the mortgage for coming month and the value of home is less than the mortgage amount and ask him to let the home sold. The lender, after getting a drive by appraisal and a BPO, finds out that the market value of the home is indeed lower than the mortgage amount and willingly agrees to take the loss and let the home sold.
Why buyer and the seller are motivated in this situation although both of them are losers? The seller compares his decision in letting the house sold to not letting the house sold and if letting the house sold relieves him from stress, that is a free will motivation. Happiness or sadness, wining or losing are not absolute. They all are relative and if you decided to do on your own free will, you are motive. So, for the seller it is a good deal at this situation to get the lender’s approval, sell the home and get out of here.
The lender also compares the selling the home now and get whatever is the market value to let the home foreclosed, and then turn it to REO, which would take months or years and sell it for less with more expenses. The lender, although is losing money, but is happy that he can cut loss and get rid of the home. So, the lender is motivated
What is the motivation of a typical home seller? It can be anything. It can be a financial need, it can be the increase in the family, it can be a job transfer, and it can be just getting tired of the neighborhood. You cannot come up with a single definition for a typical motivation or typically motivated but you can say what is not a typically motivated transaction. If the decision is not based on person’s free will or is under undue influence, it is not typically motivated contract.


As to REO's/bank owned, their motivation is to get the real estate off of the books as they are unintended owners of the property as the result of foreclosure. Most often, the sooner the better. Yes they are motivated but in my mind, a lender/owner is not a typical owner of a property with an intention of selling the property to receive the maximum possible value for it in the market place.
It doesn’t matter if lenders intended or not to be the owner of that REO home. The fact is that they are the current owner of that home and they have the same right that a typical homeowner has. They can move to that home, sell it, rent it, destroy it or let it sit there for years but like a typical homeowner who is looking for his own best interest, they are looking for their best interest which is to sell that home prior to the foreclosure
Of course lenders are motivated to receive the maximum amount for the sale of their properties. bankers by default are the most capitalistic, materialistic and stingiest group of people and try to collect the last penny,
You may parse and define all you want but my interpretation is that the sale described in the definition of Market Value in the FNMA forms does not describe sales of bank owned properties nor short sales.
It doesn’t describe sales of any entity. It just says sales or the seller.
As I said earlier, it is impossible every typical motivation in the world is because any action that we take on our own free will is a typical motivation. You drive your car; you are typically motivated to drive your car. No body forces you do it. You take an assignment to do an appraisal; you are typically motivated by your own free will to do it. No body put a gun to your head to do it.
The best way to define typically motivated agreement or transaction is to define what is not a typically motivated agreement. The agreement or transaction, which is not based on, the free will or is done under undue influence is not a typically motivated transaction.

We can appraise to a value that would include the consideration of such bank owned and/or short sales sales and we can consider the impact of these sales in the final opinion of value based on indicated sales prices and market conditions but, IMNSHO, we should use them when appraising under the FNMA definition of Market Value as they are N/A.
When 75% of market consists of short sales and REOs and those transactions have followed all those 5 market value definition, then what is the problem? You may don’t like it but that is the reality and you have the accept it like the homeowner who has to sell the home at the short sale because it is better than getting it foreclosed or walk away form it and get a tainted credit history.

Is the short sale transaction cumbersome and long sometimes? Yes it is but this can happen to any transaction. Sometimes, the homeowner needs to transfer to property by a quitclaim deed to the lender in order to close the deal. Sometimes the lender who is handling the short sale is a servicer and need to contact the note holder. In a typical homeowner sales also there are some delays sometimes. The wife needs to quit claim the deed to the husband, a title needs to be cleared for some liens or judgments. These are the nature of real estate transactions
 
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A homeowner selling for less than the mortgage amount may or may not have undue stimulus in their motivation. They may or may not be facing foreclosure. They may or may not need to sell. The range of motivation for a short sale is just as wide as any other sale. (I will grant that the distribution of that range of motivation is different.)
While I tend to agree with what you are saying, it is clear by the required lender approval that a seller selling on a short sale does not make the total selling decision. A significant part of the decision is made by the lender to accept a short sale. In doing this, the seller will normally net zero dollars and therefore could care less if the sales price is -5% under established market value levels or -40% under. His net will be the same. The buyer also knows this and is normally more inclined to low-ball the offer. Therefore, I do not think that this can be seen as a selling decision on the part of the seller. Granted, it is more likely that a short sale would be closer to the definition of MV than an REO, but I would tend to not use them unless there were no other sales available or I had personal knowledge of the transaction such as having done the appraisal for the sale with some deeper understanding of the whole transaction.
 
Mr. Carlsen,

I view the definition of market value as a definition to provide clarity for the reader of our reports. It is not, in my view, a guiding force for comparable selection. All sales must be viewed in the context of their market. I would no more dismiss a "typical" MLS sale with only 1 day exposure to market (the FNMA definition requires adequate exposure) then I would a bank-owned sale or a short sale because of possible atypical seller motivation. It is our job to select comparable sales that are reflective of the market. In practice, like you, I would prefer to avoid using bank-owned or short sales. Many times I can't avoid such sales and the market dictates that I shouldn't.
 
I view the definition of market value as a definition to provide clarity for the reader of our reports. It is not, in my view, a guiding force for comparable selection.
I'm sorry to see you make that mistake.

Suppose the client gave you an assignment with the Assignment Condition to provide a value based on the sales of green 1 story houses between 1/1/2006 and 7/2/2008. According to your interpretation, you would be justified in using a sale of a red 2 story house that sold on 7/5/2005 because it is located in the same market.

I think not. Value opined must be IAW the definition of value provided and not what we would like it to be or want it to be. Otherwise, you are misleading the reader.
 
Richard:

No need to reiterate definitions. We are going to have to agree to disagree. May I suggest that as markets change, motivations change; "undue stimulus" and "typical buyer" are not static.

Do you think that "undue stimulus" is the same in a market where buyer's bid up the sale's prices as in a market dominated by REO's? I don't think so. You are making a huge assumption if you think that REO's (short etc) can't define a market because IMHO they can and they are in some areas.
 
I'm sorry to see you make that mistake.

Suppose the client gave you an assignment with the Assignment Condition to provide a value based on the sales of green 1 story houses between 1/1/2006 and 7/2/2008. According to your interpretation, you would be justified in using a sale of a red 2 story house that sold on 7/5/2005 because it is located in the same market.

I think not. Value opined must be IAW the definition of value provided and not what we would like it to be or want it to be. Otherwise, you are misleading the reader.

Interesting hypothetical. Hypotheticals can be fun. Okay, I'll play. Let us pretend you have an assignment to appraise a property in the Valley Creek subdivision and 14 of 15 sales over the past year were bank owned at the time of sale. Will you ignore 14 sales because they were bank owned and they don't match the definition of market value? I hope not.

Again we are talking about a definition of market value provided by FNMA. They do not provide a definition of a market transaction or define which transactions are indicative of market value.
 
Richard:

No need to reiterate definitions. We are going to have to agree to disagree. May I suggest that as markets change, motivations change; "undue stimulus" and "typical buyer" are not static.

Do you think that "undue stimulus" is the same in a market where buyer's bid up the sale's prices as in a market dominated by REO's? I don't think so. You are making a huge assumption if you think that REO's (short etc) can't define a market because IMHO they can and they are in some areas.

I agree with you, Vivian. How can anyone possibly think that sellers/buyers in a market dominated by REOs and short sales are not going to have different motivation from those in a stable market? It is the same type of effect as a major layoff or a waste dump going into the neighborhood.
 
Will you ignore 14 sales because they were bank owned and they don't match the definition of market value? I hope not.

Yes I will ignore them as comparables but I may include them as an indicator of the properties available to buyers. I just finished a review where the appraiser actually wrote a very nice report except that he called the market "in balance" when there was over 18 months supply of housing. His comps were right on as were his adjustments in my opinion. Where he failed to interpret the market was by using the weighted adjusted sales price of all comps (no one best sales) whereas I, seeing the market in an over-supply condition with obvious declining values, went to the lower end of the indicated value range. It is in the reconciliation of the data to value that I would take into account the bank owned properties. If they were put into the grid, it would be for information purposes only.

I can agree to disagree because I'm so darned agreeable these days, having dropped 26 lbs since the first of May.

:clapping:
 
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