Slow Down?

[TRESinc]

This thread has got way off topic and is boring.

Can we revert back to how we are personally being affected by the current market in terms of our business? Some may be affected, others not so much, but can we please keep the political vitriol out of it?

unfortunately not on this board. there are too many people who just want to slide politics into every discussion and they do it over and over and over and over....

 

[gregb]

unfortunately not on this board. there are too many people who just want to slide politics into every discussion and they do it over and over and over and over....

Says he with this tag line: FTC! Oligopsony! Cattle farmers! Sherman Anti-Trust! The government will save us all! Squirrels!

 

[TRESinc]

Says he with this tag line: FTC! Oligopsony! Cattle farmers! Sherman Anti-Trust! The government will save us all! Squirrels!

touche, but my sig line is a paraphrased quote from someone else on here and has nothing to do with my personal or political beliefs (i haven never even met a cattle farmer). all of the items were related to appraisals in threads on this board, most of them over and over in the same threads. i don't get into political fights because that's all they ever are and nothing ever changes - no matter which side you ask they are the ones in the right and the other side is wrong.

 

[Bob Ipock]

it is not a traditional or typical "free market", which means buyers and sellers can freely order and do business with each other. On res lending mortgage work that is regulated the "buyer" of the services is twice removed from choosing an appraiser...first off the borrower can not choose, we know that, second off the individual loan officers can not choose post HVCC which consolidates orders ...then on top of that the AMC model , or lender ordering division set up as AMC, does not operate the way normal buyers do who shop services for cost, the AMC shops services for profit back to them ( like a kicback to get an order )

The fact that unlike any other profession, and in fact unlike the rest of the appraisal profession, the fees on res lender mortgage side of appraising have been so severely impacted shows it is not a normal free market at work. Supply and demand...the narrow consolidation of "demand" into a small number of clients/companies skews the normal supply/demand dynamic.

The borrower is not part of the equation for a ban/mortgage transaction. The bank contracts with an AMC to handle their appraisals and the AMC finds and selects appraisers (good or bad). Pretty simple. That is the way it is and the way most lenders want it. The appraiser is no different that the janitorial service. They are chosen by who can do the job in an acceptable manner at the lowest costs.

 

[J Grant]

• So it's fine with you to be equated to a janitorial service....?? I suppose so from your post ! And even janitorial services are not always selected by lowest cost but by who can do a good job of it..no disrespect to anyone in that field, at least it is honest work

 

[J Grant]

The borrower is not part of the equation for a ban/mortgage transaction. The bank contracts with an AMC to handle their appraisals and the AMC finds and selects appraisers (good or bad). Pretty simple. That is the way it is and the way most lenders want it. The appraiser is no different that the janitorial service. They are chosen by who can do the job in an acceptable manner at the lowest costs.

You still miss the point. I understand the borrower is not the named client and the appraisal is not done by the borrower, you think I don't understand that ? Really??? You missed the point, in that the borrower PAYS for the appraisal and they are the reason an assignment exists in a lending appraisal. The reason lending appraisals differ from the rest of appraisal engagment ( and other free market engagement ) is that the borrower since they are not allowed to choose the appraiser, relies on the lender to do so.If lender uses an AMC, the borrower has no idea the AMC is bidding out the assignment flea market style to find the cheapest.

Users of janitorial services are free to pick which service or janitor to use, and btw as in most businesses, janitors charge very similar rates for the same kind of work in a regional area.

 

[Bob Ipock]

The borrower is not the client. The entity that engages the appraiser is the client. The borrower pays the LENDER who chooses an AMC who locates and engages the appraiser. The LENDER tells the borrower what the appraisal fee will be at the time of loan application. If the borrower does not like the appraisal they are free to go somewhere else.
This is how it works regardless of how you or I think it should be.

 

[J Grant]

The borrower is not the client. The entity that engages the appraiser is the client. The borrower pays the LENDER who chooses an AMC who locates and engages the appraiser. The LENDER tells the borrower what the appraisal fee will be at the time of loan application. If the borrower does not like the appraisal they are free to go somewhere else.
This is how it works regardless of how you or I think it should be.

OF COURSE I know that doh!1 Are you that dense you think you have to explain such a basic thing to me? The problem is the exploitation of this fact by lenders and AMC's... tired of trying to explain it, go live with the consequences that you meekly accept., being paid on par with and treated worse than a janitor to use your own example.

The borrower is free to go elsewhere? ? Really? The borrower just paid for the appraisal and now is stuck, and often owes the lender a fee to get out of a loan, plus most borrowers are not competent enough to know if they got a decent appraisal or not. Which is why the lenders are supposed to use due diligence in appraisal selection .

 

[Bob Ipock]

OF COURSE I know that doh!1 Are you that dense you think you have to explain such a basic thing to me? The problem is the exploitation of this fact by lenders and AMC's... tired of trying to explain it, we live with the consequences that you meekly accept. Have fun being paid less than and treated worse than a janitor to use your own example.

I am tired of you pretending the borrower cares. The appraisal is required , the fee is required and set by the lender. The fee is of no consequence as long as the appraisal is USPAP, state appraisal board and FannieMae compliant. YOU don't get to determine who prepares good appraisals and who does not The lender is responsible and is required to have a review process in place. You don't like the system so you either stay in the business or you leave. Appraisers re not the least bit worried about the consumer, only about the fee and how to get more of it.

 

[J Grant]

I am tired of you pretending the borrower cares. The appraisal is required , the fee is required and set by the lender. The fee is of no consequence as long as the appraisal is USPAP, state appraisal board and FannieMae compliant. YOU don't get to determine who prepares good appraisals and who does not The lender is responsible and is required to have a review process in place. You don't like the system so you either stay in the business or you leave. Appraisers re not the least bit worried about the consumer, only about the fee and how to get more of it.

? Pretending the borrow cares? They spend a lot of money to get a loan and are impacted by outcome. They may not be knowledgeable or unbiased enough to evaluate an appraisal, but that is not the same thing as them not caring ...despite not being named as client, the borrower is the party most affected by the outcome and without a borrower, there is no lending appraisal assignment.

An appraiser who does good work by extension "cares" about the borrower, regardless of fee. Of course appraisers are interested in fees, since it is our livelihood. You are fine with AMC's getting their profit from reducing the amount of fee that reaches an appraiser, apparently. I maintain that in addition to competent, experienced appraisers leaving res mortgage work, that the borrower and secondary market can be harmed by the fees being a selector by AMC's of the appraiser. You are free to disagree but telling me if I dont like it leave the business.. okay...thanks for the advice .