Solar Value

[Terrel L. Shields]

How about no definitive data going back 5 years? Still makes no difference?

That implies that the first house in a subdivision is worth "zero" doesn't it? It implies that the first industrial property in a small town cannot be valued. That implies that the first swimming pool was worth zero. The first home with central heat and air. If the CHA does not work, then it has no functional utility. But do you pretend it isn't there or do you figure the cost to repair it?

Solar panels may be functional impairments. They may not bring a dollar for dollar reward. But anything that reduces the cost of owning a home is a plus to the property. Again, how do you explain the AI - Denver study? Do you think simply because there are few systems around that some - perhaps more limited pool of - buyers would not pay extra? So to flip your question. How would you determine that it does not contribute value if you have no paired sales to prove that it does not? You can only do so by the Sgt. Shultz rule -

 

[George Hatch]

Terr,

I'm curious if you think I'd falsely refer to past experience with such assignments? Equally curious if you think I've never seen resales of such properties when doing *these* assignments as well as *other* assignments NOT involving a subject with a solar system install?

I've gone so far as to manually scroll through every recent and dated sale listing - including expireds and withdrawns - so as to identify properties that are only as comparable as having the similar location and which might also have a solar install. I've taken to using the overhead imagery to identify properties with such installs for the express purpose of checking on their sales and listing history.


How about you?

 

[Elliott]

Mikevee said,

On average I generate between 30-45 KWh per day (the upper range in the summer months)

Thank you. So let's say 35 KWh per day x 365 x Whats a KW Cost (lets say 10 cents) = $1277.50, or $1300 per year.

Interesting article in the WSJ today that says the big Las Vegas casinos want to not buy their energy from Nevada Energy (Buffett) at 10 cents, but make a deal with the wholesalers who are at 4 cents. The spread use to be much, much closer.

Anyway, Mike, I think your 'savings' barely cover interest on the system, do not cover depreciation ($1500), or maintenance ($300). While I'm not going to say
it has no contributory value, if analyzed as an investment should be analyzed, its a clunker. The appraiser should have said, "I'm sorry Mr. Mike, Dodd-Frank and the Fair Housing Act directs me to only communicate though the lender or appraisal management company. If you have concerns about the appraisal, they should be sent to your lender and they will make a decision to pass it on to me and I will respond according. Thank you." I wished you wouldn't have gone forward with a complaint.

 

[Mikeyvee17]

Mikevee said,

On average I generate between 30-45 KWh per day (the upper range in the summer months)

Thank you. So let's say 35 KWh per day x 365 x Whats a KW Cost (lets say 10 cents) = $1277.50, or $1300 per year.

Interesting article in the WSJ today that says the big Las Vegas casinos want to not buy their energy from Nevada Energy (Buffett) at 10 cents, but make a deal with the wholesalers who are at 4 cents. The spread use to be much, much closer.

Anyway, Mike, I think your 'savings' barely cover interest on the system, do not cover depreciation ($1500), or maintenance ($300). While I'm not going to say
it has no contributory value, if analyzed as an investment should be analyzed, its a clunker. The appraiser should have said, "I'm sorry Mr. Mike, Dodd-Frank and the Fair Housing Act directs me to only communicate though the lender or appraisal management company. If you have concerns about the appraisal, they should be sent to your lender and they will make a decision to pass it on to me and I will respond according. Thank you." I wished you wouldn't have gone forward with a complaint.

How do you figure it's a clunker? The cost to me is $108 per month for 15 years. After the 15 years I have 10 years of free and clear power and then some. There is no maintenance to the panels aside me going on my roof with a hose twice a year and spraying them off, if that. Sure the depreciation comes into play, but there is still a value there.

I went ahead with the complaint because there are procedures and extra steps the appraiser could have taken to assign a value and that was not done.

As a consumer, I have the right to be unhappy with a service that was provided. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

I think a complaint is a great idea. Let that Board decide and it gives guidance to appraisers everywhere. But no one has answered my question. What do you think of the Denver study that AI was in on and its conclusion that solar is a positive feature.

Any yes, George, I have vetted energy efficient homes (I don't differentiate geothermal, HERS, LEED, etc., solar, passive solar, nor other rated homes). I would think S. California would have plenty of solar homes. There are somewhat less than 1,000,000 homes with rooftop solar PV panels in the U. S. A quick check shows about 173 of these energy efficient homes sold in the past 3 years in our MLS. But the most casual observation indicates that the median price of these energy efficient homes is well above the average of all homes, and the DOM was around 80 vs. 97 for our last month overall. Intuitively, that may partly be accounted for by the simple fact higher priced homes may be the ones where more people will invest in the most energy savings. But that savings is real, those premiums are real. And they have been for a long time. I remember using a passive solar designed home as a comp and it was higher than anything similar in the school district which was evidence to me that the design was a factor in the price.

The only home I valued with Solar panels actually were on ground stands. They also powered up an array of batteries along with a co-generating windmill. The cost far exceeded my estimate of the contribution, but they were not invisible.

 

[Elliott]

Mikeyvee,
An investment which cost $30,000, that requires me and my fellow tax payers to subsidize it to the tune of $12,000, that only produces a saving of $100 per month, is a clunker investment. No rational person would buy the investment. Move it to Florida or Arizona and it barely breaks even. Wholesale electricity is now at 4 cents, its just that state utility commissioners are so corrupt and inefficient that they charge customers 10 to 14 cents a KWH. The original purpose of a utility company was economy of scale and produce electricity or natural gas at lower rates.

 

[Mikeyvee17]

Mikeyvee,
An investment which cost $30,000, that requires me and my fellow tax payers to subsidize it to the tune of $12,000, that only produces a saving of $100 per month, is a clunker investment. No rational person would buy the investment. Move it to Florida or Arizona and it barely breaks even. Wholesale electricity is now at 4 cents, its just that state utility commissioners are so corrupt and inefficient that they charge customers 10 to 14 cents a KWH. The original purpose of a utility company was economy of scale and produce electricity or natural gas at lower rates.

If we are going to bring taxpayer money into this I would be pissed a lot more at the banks instead of the people using subsidized money for solar.

You also need to take into account the average rate the utility raises the rates each year.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Let us know what the board says please.

 

[JTip]

No rational person would buy the investment. Move it to Florida or Arizona and it barely breaks even.

The Kool-Aid tastes good until you wake up the next morning with a splitting headache and it burns when you go to the bathroom.

 

[Elliott]

Mike said, New York State just called me and will be assigning someone to review my case. I will let you all know when the State rules in my favor and I get a refund for the appraisal that was done incorrectly.

Is this the State Appraisal Board? Most states accept complaints, administratively handle the complaint, and determine if the appraiser violated USPAP and can impose a sanction of education or suspension. I didn't know a state board can order a refund. Most borrowers are not told about the "sanction" unless its a public record sanction.