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Square footage GLA

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Unless you make a bunch of huge mistakes on all the comps going in the same direction leading to a serious development error. Physically measuring comps is beyond the scope of work for residendtial mortgage appraisals and is just not practical.

Use the best information you can in the normal course of business, clarify the scope of work, try to bracket the subject's relevant features and explain to the client what you did and why you did it.

Mismeasuring the subject might get you into trouble but I doubt if a case could be made against an appraiser fighting with poor data.
 
Obviously Greg, you've never appraised NJ. In many cases it is either measuring your comps or guessing. Measuring from the street is a guess too, but a better informed one. I measured from the street for a court case and the other appraiser just guessed and my value held up over his because my was the better method per the court. (To this day the only court case I've been involved in as an appraiser).

I have heard some municipalities are getting better at having GLA on the SR1As, and there are those that will always help; but it was always a problem and there are no other sources to speak of.
 
Obviously Greg, you've never appraised NJ.

Is it THAT obvious?:rof:

(To this day the only court case I've been involved in as an appraiser).

Then why measure comps unless you're involved cases that will go to court.

Everytime I do an appraisal this issue comes up. Only about 1 in 100 public property records lists improvement characteristics. 5,500 square miles and there are only two places to actually go and look up hard copy and then it is hit and miss anyway. Some areas are controlled by groups of Realtors who live in mortal fear of litigation over GLA or lot size errors so they don't list them. Half the time you can't see improvements from the street or only small portions of them.

"Measuring from the street?" I would think that's worse than a good guess with some back up from listing and selling agents. I've never had an agent blow me off on this issue even if they didn't know for sure.
 
I am in shock that so many are giving answers that do not include actually getting out of your car when you take the photo and measure the comp yourself.

I'm with TJ here. We've got these things called tape measures? Turns out they work just as well on your comps as they do on your subject. :) Before public records access I measured hundreds, if not thousands of comps. I can't believe nobody is considering this. I would always knock on the door first, give them a card and explain who I was and what I was doing there. The number of people who refused to let me measure had to number less than 10 or so. Just yesterday, I had to knock on a couple of doors to verify private sales for a particularly difficult property I'm doing where there were few sales in the MLS. I talked to owners at both houses, got interior information and even verified closing costs/mortgage data for the sales. No problem.
 
Is it THAT obvious?:rof:



Then why measure comps unless you're involved cases that will go to court.

Everytime I do an appraisal this issue comes up. Only about 1 in 100 public property records lists improvement characteristics. 5,500 square miles and there are only two places to actually go and look up hard copy and then it is hit and miss anyway. Some areas are controlled by groups of Realtors who live in mortal fear of litigation over GLA or lot size errors so they don't list them. Half the time you can't see improvements from the street or only small portions of them.

"Measuring from the street?" I would think that's worse than a good guess with some back up from listing and selling agents. I've never had an agent blow me off on this issue even if they didn't know for sure.

I guess I worded that wrong. Actually I didn't know there was the potential of going to court when I did the assignment. I did the report for another appraisal company where the other appraiser was approved with the lender and I wasn't so he had to sign off. He had agreed to go to court and I was to go with him to testify. No big deal though. I went on vacation :laugh: he testified, and then relayed to me that it was the measuring from the street that won the day.

You are right that a lot of houses are not visible from the street in most areas, but when appraising the densely populated areas of NJ (the nation's most densely populated state even though nearly 1/2 of it is dedicated to the Pine Barrens where it is quite barren, and other portions are dedicated to fruit and vegetable growing, hence its name The Garden State, where the taste of the locally grown produce is exceptional due to the rich soil), there are few houses not visible and measurable from the street - especially in Jersey City which is the locale in question. And having done a lot of appraisals there where I measured listings/pendings for comps at the street and then had to physically measure them later for the appraisal, it was my experience that it was better to measure from the street than to guess or ask agents, etc.

But I know how you feel. The first time someone told me they did it I thought he was nuts. He was also the first guy who told me he actually used the Marshall & Swift Cost Guide Handbook, so this guy was totally crazy! I just rolled my eyes and laughed. But then, one day, I said to myself "Well, if it works for Scott, I'll try it". And I found it worked quite well, both the measuring and the M&S.

Today I still use the M&S but Florida public records are pretty darn reliable relative to Jersey, and the agents if the PR are off will often disclose it in the MLS writeup and/or tell you when talking to them about it. No more measuring from the street now.

The agents in Jersey were not the most adept at getting an idea of living area, nor helpful on the topic. There were other methods. Like before I started measuring at street level I would multiply the room dimensions in the MLS (the agents in my area were goog at providing interior room measurements) and then multiplying that by 1.2 to account for the exterior measurements, bath rooms, laundry, foyer, mud rm, etc.. But it quickly became my experience that it wasn't as accurate as running up along the side and measuring.
 
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Jim it seems that your the only one that really understands this part of NJ. The truth is I could measure the front of the comps but 9 out of 10 times there is no way to measure the length do to iron gates with locks, Pit bulls (been chased under my car, on top of my car, down the street, "not exaggerating") I really appreciate everyones input in this matter, But you really have to see the area's that I am appraising. Inner cities with houses that are unlivable right next door. So you could imagine knocking on someones door to ask them a couple of questions.

The reason for this thread is because I got questioned about my GLA by a review appraiser and I tried to explain to him that there is no way to find out the GLA but to physically measure the comps and that is not always possible. I tried to explain to him that I do a lot of these properties so I should have an accurate guess on the GLA. Of course the reviewer was from Texas. He didn't agree with that answer.

The MLS and Tax Records does show the GLA when the cities reassess their properties, but in cities such as Jersey City, Newark, Irvington, etc... this hasn't been done in years.

I think I should just retire and move somewhere warm!! lol..

Thanks again for everyone's comments.
 
Well in that case what I have done, and this gets stupid but has worked for a rough estimate, is looked down the side of my house and see where it ends in relation to its neighbors, and then go to the house on the corner and run along the sidewalk that way to the point where it appears the comp ended. It is far from perfect, but at least it gives you an idea of the depth. It is amazing how you can measure houses all day long but then when having to look down those canyons find yourself unable to estimate the length. Other times when looking down, I've tried to estimate the distance from the start of the wall to the first window, add the size of the window in, estimate the length to the next window, etc., till I reached the end. You really do have to get creative and I don't envy that part of the job in Jersey. It is a much harder state to appraise than my area of Florida, by far.
 
The reason for this thread is because I got questioned about my GLA by a review appraiser and I tried to explain to him that there is no way to find out the GLA but to physically measure the comps and that is not always possible. I tried to explain to him that I do a lot of these properties so I should have an accurate guess on the GLA. Of course the reviewer was from Texas. He didn't agree with that answer.

If the review appraiser is from outside of the area, and does not have access to data which is more reliable than your own, then why should his/her method of estimating the GLA of comparable sales be considered more reliable than yours? As long as your methodology is sound and consistent with accepted appraisal practice, challenge the reviewer to provide his/her methodology and defend its superiority.
 
I agree with athome77, where is the review appraiser getting their "better data" from Texas?

I think this is just one of those things that is region specfic, but in Maryland, not only is it in the SOW but until recently it was SOP to measure all of the comps because that was the only way to get a reliable number. Yes, now GLA is in our tax records, but sometimes we still get out in measure when things just don't look right or when we see new additions, etc. Jim Klos pointed out many of the different ways it can be done, even with row houses.

One method you could try, if the agents are not reliable in your area as they are here, you can still call the listing agent and ask who the appraiser was who did that appraisal for the comp sale, then ask for their phone number and give them a call to see if they will disclose the GLA to you for the comp.
 
I agree with athome77, where is the review appraiser getting their "better data" from Texas?

I think this is just one of those things that is region specfic, but in Maryland, not only is it in the SOW but until recently it was SOP to measure all of the comps because that was the only way to get a reliable number. Yes, now GLA is in our tax records, but sometimes we still get out in measure when things just don't look right or when we see new additions, etc. Jim Klos pointed out many of the different ways it can be done, even with row houses.

One method you could try, if the agents are not reliable in your area as they are here, you can still call the listing agent and ask who the appraiser was who did that appraisal for the comp sale, then ask for their phone number and give them a call to see if they will disclose the GLA to you for the comp.

Last week while inspecting comps for a field review I measured to of the listing comps he used because they were vacant. I often measure vacant listings so I'll have them in my comp list should I need them later. I measure comps ocassionally but it's kind of rare. I just don't think it's important enough. Scope of work requires at least three sales and as long as there is a bracket of reasonably comparable properties precise GLA just isn't a big deal except in dense, urban areas of very similar properties.
 
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