Square Footage Inclusion

[Mike Kennedy]

on that size dwelling......methinks the $8,000 for GLA variance is much ado bout nuthing........and the REAL variance lies elsewhere.........we're GOOD -but no Appraiser is a "mad scientist"......(well i guess some are come to think bout it). the "plot" thickens.....................more news at Noon?

 

[hastalavista]

Perhaps the poster's $8-$10k assumption of value difference for 100sf is not based on the market GLA adjustment but is based on the more commonly thought of (especially be real estate agents), but not appropriate for this purpose, Sale Price/SQFT?

 

[wyecoyote]

The 100 sq/ft amounts to approximately $8-10,000 I would have to knock off the price in order for the buyer to fall within the VA loan parameters since the VA will only loan what the appraiser says the house is worth. This buyer doesn't have the amount of capital to cover the difference between what the VA appraiser came in at and what the non-VA appraiser came in at (which is what I based the house price on and what they agreed to pay). To someone in my financial situation, $8000 is a BIG hit to take. Of course, if the non-VA appraiser made a mistake, then I'll have to do what I have to do in order to sell the house at the proper sq/ft and price.

Ok taking an assumption here from what Pam posted about the 100 square feet being the open foyer area on the second level. In my area that open space would not be included in the total square footage. Don't know about Texas though but would wonder about there wether or not that is included in the assessors measurments or not. If the assessor typicaly includes them then possibly that area should be included. However, if the assessor does not include them then no it shouldn't be included.

Then you have the price per square foot. The price per square foot do not use what is listed at the top of the form. Price per square foot like Denis said is typicaly used by Agents and others. Price per square foot in residential appraisals doesn't mean a thing for the most part.

Here are a few questions for you to consider. The deal is never dead until neither party wants to negotiate. Did you include any closing costs in the purchase? If so then perhaps have the buyer pay their own closing costs. Then there is always the option of spliting the difference having the buyer and you split the $8-$10K and you knocking off half and the buyer coming in with half. You could always have the buyer come in with the full amount. You could always reduce the price by the amount. Is there real estate agent(s) involved and loan officer? Perhaps every one could take a hit the agents reducing their commission by a certain amount the loan officer charging less (points) and you knocking off a bit and the buyer coming in with some cash. If you don't have any real estate agents involved in the transaction you can consider that if you paid 6% in agent fees and are saving this by not using them then you already have saved some money. Lastly how much is the purchase price $50K, $100K, $200K or $300K+. $8,000-$10,000 on a $300K purcase isn't that much of a percentage difference. Where the same amount on a $50K sale is a big difference.

The only time the deal is dead is when you and the buyer agree it is dead.

Pam stated that it appears that one appraiser included the open area and the other appraiser subtracted the open area plus the stairwell. It appears based upon my area that both may be in error. But this is for my area not yours. It appears that they both varied slightly. Though on a 2,300 SF house that is less than a 5% difference and could be considered acceptable by many.

 

[Shannon Short]

... From the posts that you've just made I think you're getting worked up over something that may not have even happened yet. 100sf in a 2,000 sf house might be a minimal difference or it might be a significant difference. It depends upon your market, and, unfortunately sometimes, (as referenced by some of the others here) the competency of the appraiser(s).

I might suggest that you play the "wait & see" game. You can't really do anything about it right this minute. You might even be surprised.

Have a good evening.

I really appreciate everyone's advice. Although it is a "minimal difference" to many of you, I have been told by the realtor that it could result in an $8000 difference in the price. To someone who is taking care of their sick mother, $8000 is A LOT of money, albeit money I don't have yet, but I sure could use.

The house is around the 2200 square foot range.

 

[Shannon Short]

Without analysis of the style, age, design, and total SF/GLA ......impossible to ascertain if 100sf ......actually had any impact whatsoever. Rounding of Exterior Measurements....often produces similar minor (if detached dwelling is over say 1000sf or thereabouts)......sketch renderings are just that - not an exact science. On a condo apartment of 900sf .....100sf variance IS significant. Shannon - suggest you fill in the ???? blanks above .....???? and obtain more reliable ....opinions. :icon_idea:

To see the house go to

www.tycurry.com/house

 

[Shannon Short]

I guess I will do exactly what was suggested and wait to see what the VA appraiser files as his final appraisal. The house is in immaculate condition (better than most houses at 5 years old), so, we'll see. Thanks everyone.

 

[Pamela Crowley (Florida)]

OK, we appraisers can now see that the $8-10K being talked about is the Price Per Square Foot.

Shannon, Realtors and other non-appraisers use the price per SF as a value tool, BUT that skews statistics in reality!!! The only way it makes ANY sense statistically is if ALL properties used to determine the price per SF were all almost identical. That would mean there were no differences in the lots (sites), the style of the house, the quality of the construction, the age, the upgrades, the additional amenities, etc. - ALL ALMOST IDENTICAL.

If you look at the sales comparison grid on an appraisal, you'll see various adjustments taken for various items. All of those other items need to be adjusted for prior to the square footage adjustment, or at least the basic items that are above the center of the grid where the SF adjustment is located.

So, for your property, the actual adjustment for square footage differences is probably closer to around $20 or $40 per SF, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE MARKET DATA FOR A HOUSE LIKE YOURS IN YOUR AREA SHOWS. Shoot, I've seen some where a difference of 100 - 200 SF had no justfiable adjustment for that difference at all. 100 SF adjusted at $30 per would be a $3,000 adjustment.

Now, tell your Realtor to back off. Just because they have a real estate license doesn't mean they know anything at all about appraising or justifiable values of real estate. Your Realtor is NOT a disinterested third party to this transaction. Don't let her/him turn your head with misinformation and skewed statistics.

 

[Bill_FL]

Shannon,

Looking at your pictures, specifically, the foyer area. Ok, would you agree that the amount of floor you can walk on is different on the second floor then the first floor? Assuming the rest of the house has identical walls, up and down, there is no floor to walk on over the foyer on the second floor. As such, it would appear that the second floor would be smaller than the first floor. This is correct.

As to the $8,000 - $10,000 difference. It sounds like this is an asusmption that is being made? That you do not yet know if there is a difference?

 

[Robert Dunkle]

There has been a pretty complete discussion of the ins and outs of the stairwell and values, etc., so I'm going to something else.

Did you have the appraiser's permission to put the appraisal "on-line"? The "Limiting Conditions" prohibit publication of the appraisal without the appraiser's permission!

 

[Mike Kennedy]

Shannon- appears from the photos (not the first sketch)......second floor above stairs is a HALF story.....and OPEN (no floor area).....deducting 50% from the length x width of the second floor open area (above the first floor stairs only - not the second floor landing - would be reliable.

7.5 x 19.7 x 50% = 74sf. IMO - no impact whatsoever IMO. (assuming the remainder of the second floor measurements are relatively reliable).

Suggest also, if the listing agent relied upon assessor records for GLA, often times.......they are based on original Builder Brochures (as opposed to actual measurement) which in many cases INCLUDE Open areas. As I posted above, I surmise the $8,000. variance (if so).......lies elsewhere. If the List Price per Square Foot on the Listing included the OPEN areas ABOVE the living room, other areas, AND the entry stairs - I suggest that most likely is the "issue" to be resolved. :icon_idea: Additionally........would appear none of the comps used are similar Colonials. If questioning anything which might have significant impact on value........style (given yours and house adjacent) .........that.......I would question.