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Square Footage Valuation and other questions on low appraisal

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FYI to all reader members of the general public, you can do yourself a HUGE favor by contracting for an appraisal prior to your lender doing so.

Spend the $400, get a knowledgeable local appraiser to complete the assignment. You will know exactly where you stand.

Some people have even been known to furnish the lender's appraiser with a copy of the report so they can get it right, the first time! :blush:

Just providing real world solutions to people's problems.
 
Well, I got a revised appraisal back today with many changes, including a $15,000 premium placed on the golf course view relative to the comps without it and the addition of some comps from our actual neighborhood in addition to the ones previously included from other adjacent neighborhoods. The appraisal appears to be much more correct, but amazingly enough the value of the home using the sales comparison approach did not change by a single dollar.

At this point, I don't care, it's not filled with factual errors that should be caught by the lender when they get it. The appraiser did a crappy job the first time around (based on the number of changes in the revised appraisal compared to the original one), and when they fixed it they somehow played with the weightings so they didn't have to change their number. I don't believe appraisers do bad work in general, but I certainly think the appraiser who did my work did a bad job.
 
I tried posting this yesterday, but my computer has challenges with this forum for some reason ... what I had said was ...

The home is brand new, recently completed, and never lived in, it is a C1, that was another error by the appraiser, the lead appraiser said he agreed (admittedly I don't know how much of his agreement was to get rid of me ...).

I understand that Q's are more subjective, but the criteria for Q4 includes standard floor plans and builder grade finishes (with some upgrades). That does not describe the home we're buying at all, the home is custom built with many upgrades in a community of similar homes, there is no question in my mind it's at least a Q3, and based on the standard definition, I think a Q2 would be appropriate, but I can understand the difference between Q3 and Q2 is quite subjective.

Did the Lead Appraiser with the National firm inform you whether they are an Independent Appraisal Company, an independent Appraisal Management Company, or a Bank-owned Appraisal Management Company?

Did he inform you the appraiser was a staff employee of his firm or a sub-contractor/independent appraiser?

Lastly, "The home is brand new, recently completed, and never lived in, it is a C1, that was another error by the appraiser,"

How many comparables were used in the Sales Comparison Approach to Value? How many of them were "brand new, recently completed, and never lived in" i.e. C1?

IF any were "C-3", were they adjusted upward for inferior condition and age?
 
I never understand the immediate reaction of buyers to a lower than sale price appraisal. Always seems like a good negotiating tool to me. If it is really as unprofessional as you claim than the loan provider's underwriters should have caught it. I'd be pursuing them.
 
Did the Lead Appraiser with the National firm inform you whether they are an Independent Appraisal Company, an independent Appraisal Management Company, or a Bank-owned Appraisal Management Company?
Based on their website, they are an independent AMC.
Did he inform you the appraiser was a staff employee of his firm or a sub-contractor/independent appraiser?
The AMC's website says they have several thousand appraisers, so this is just an educated guess, I believe they're sub-contractors.

Lastly, "The home is brand new, recently completed, and never lived in, it is a C1, that was another error by the appraiser,"
How many comparables were used in the Sales Comparison Approach to Value? How many of them were "brand new, recently completed, and never lived in" i.e. C1?

IF any were "C-3", were they adjusted upward for inferior condition and age?
In the original appraisal, all homes were rated C3, even though a couple were in fact brand new as well, so should have been C1. In the revised report all conditions were changed to either C1 or C2.

I never understand the immediate reaction of buyers to a lower than sale price appraisal. Always seems like a good negotiating tool to me. If it is really as unprofessional as you claim than the loan provider's underwriters should have caught it. I'd be pursuing them.
Regardless of who should find these errors, they should have never been made in the first place. One or two errors is understandable, but the number of changes made from the original to the revised report I believe was pretty substantial, they included:

1) Changing the one grossly mis-priced comparable (which allegedly was not used in the value calculation since it is an active comparable, not a sold comparable).
2) Changing the condition of every home included in the original report from C3 to either C1 or C2.
3) Addition of adjustment for golf course view to valuation.
4) Addition of adjustment for lot size to valuation.
5) Changing the adjustment for differences in GLA from $18 per sq. ft. to $80 per sq. ft.
6) Changing age adjustment of one comparable from -2,500 to +2,500.

So, the original report had five comparables included, three closed that were supposedly the basis for the cost basis valuation, and two active listings, which I'm told are included to support the fact that the neighborhood currently supports homes of the value as shown in the report. They also added three more comps at my request from the neighborhood the home we are buying is actually located in, which I believe is a better indication of value since they include similar features and in some cases, similar views.

So, the valuation based on the three original sold comps were, and the valuation in the revised report:

$418,500 originally -> $405,700 revised
$446,600 originally -> $491,500 revised
$562,600 originally -> $595,000 revised

The three new sold comps resulted in valuations of $466,940, $489,640, and $530,776. So, the original valuation was $487,000, and somehow the weightings work out so the revised valuation comes in at $487,000.

The active listings were:

$193,468 originally -> $546,883 revised
$589,836 originally -> $583,760 revised

Again, these are allegedly not used in the valuation, but are just included for reference to meet some requirement.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the appraisal is accepted and I can put all this stuff behind me.
 
So, the valuation based on the three original sold comps were, and the valuation in the revised report:

$418,500 originally -> $405,700 revised
$446,600 originally -> $491,500 revised
$562,600 originally -> $595,000 revised

The three new sold comps resulted in valuations of $466,940, $489,640, and $530,776. So, the original valuation was $487,000, and somehow the weightings work out so the revised valuation comes in at $487,000.

Just looking at the original and revised numbers something stands out to me, in the original it is obvious the most weight was likely given to #'s 2 & 3 and the least to 1. Does the report explain why?

Second, looking at the revised numbers I would wonder "What is up with #1?" Is it s short sale, REO, RELO or otherwise have a highly motivated seller?

Finally there are the 3 new comps putting the revised "comps" at: $405,700, $491,500, $595,000, $466,940, $489,640, and $530,776
Did the appraiser explain why the value is still $487k given the revision and the new data? A $190k variation in adjusted prices is quite large for properties in that price range (almost 50% of the adjusted value of comp #1)

The active listings were:

$193,468 originally -> $546,883 revised
$589,836 originally -> $583,760 revised

Again, these are allegedly not used in the valuation, but are just included for reference to meet some requirement.

Was any opinion of sales/list prices mentioned (such on page 1004MC or whatnot)? If a SP/LP ratio is mentioned is it 0.90 or lower or is it higher? Reason I ask is that can give some indication as to the market especially given the wide ranges for the comps.
 
Just looking at the original and revised numbers something stands out to me, in the original it is obvious the most weight was likely given to #'s 2 & 3 and the least to 1. Does the report explain why?
The appraiser never discusses the weightings used in the original or revised report.
Second, looking at the revised numbers I would wonder "What is up with #1?" Is it s short sale, REO, RELO or otherwise have a highly motivated seller?
#1 is a five year old home (one of the active comparables is six years old, all others are or were brand new construction and never lived in). The finishes inside #1 are five years old and probably not in reality comparable to the new homes, and the age adjustment on #1 for it being that old was only $2,500, which seems low to me.
Finally there are the 3 new comps putting the revised "comps" at: $405,700, $491,500, $595,000, $466,940, $489,640, and $530,776
Did the appraiser explain why the value is still $487k given the revision and the new data? A $190k variation in adjusted prices is quite large for properties in that price range (almost 50% of the adjusted value of comp #1)
Nope, it's a black box, here's the comp values, and here's the sales approach value, no explanation of weightings in either the original or revised report. Is that typical?
Was any opinion of sales/list prices mentioned (such on page 1004MC or whatnot)? If a SP/LP ratio is mentioned is it 0.90 or lower or is it higher? Reason I ask is that can give some indication as to the market especially given the wide ranges for the comps.
They don't discuss the basis for it anywhere, but they use a factor of .99 for sale to list price, which is probably high.
 
They don't discuss the basis for it anywhere, but they use a factor of .99 for sale to list price, which is probably high.

Look to see if a page called the "1004MC" exists. If it does look at the bottom row of numbers in the grid. They should all be 0.xx (or maybe as high as 1.00) and all three may vary.

Hope that helps some.


Lack of discussion makes me wonder if the appraiser did a SUMMARY report (and summarized what he did) or if he merely filled out a form. You can ask for additional clarification (see Dodd-Frank bill signed into law).
 
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