Straight from USPAP value, price, opinons

[glenn walker]

And we have to adhere to USPAP...


Sine appraisals are under USPAP, to see appraisers saying we give price opinions, or an opinion of value is an opinion of price/ they are the same thing etc....incredible -they don't seem to understand it is not just semantics, this goes to the heart of what an appraisal is ( and what an appraisal is not )...and can affect appraisal practice.

As a Broker I am doing a BPO and its a Price Opinion and I am not under USPAP and my BPO says its not an appraisal . BUT as an Appraiser I am under USPAP so I use that Word Value and that magically makes it an-appraisal and I certify my Price Opinion or Opinion of Price and call it a Opinion of Value. Again its all word semantics and nothing changes the appraisal as as long as the appraiser comply with USPAP and certifies it then all is good.

 

[djd09]

USPAP is junk sponsored by all the interested parties

 

[Dublin ohio]

I certify my probable Price Opinion or probable Opinion of Price.

Fixed it.

 

[J Grant]

Unlike cost and price which are facts, "value is an opinion, albeit an opinion with a basis in fact"
i.e., value is always justified since it is determined by reference to factual market data such as
past consummated sales or bona fide asking prices for comparable properties.

The Point Is : The appraisers price opinion of value when converted to a final $$ amount of market value then becomes more than just an-opinion. When the Lender-Buyer take that Opinion of Value it now converts to a Price. Again we are just playing Semantics but unlike an ordinary opinion which is assumed to be just that with no data or basis of fact is even required.

We are not playing semantics, read the USPAP definitions about it again ( and the logic presented in it )

The appraisers opinion, as you note, remains an opinion, even when we put a $ numerical price point on it.

The reality that a lender or buyer can USE our opinion of market value, to covert that number to a price they pay, sell for, or loan on, does not mean we gave a "price opinion "

We do however when we develop the appraisal use fact prices of other sales and listings....to analyze them to help develop for our opinion of market value !

 

[J Grant]

As a Broker I am doing a BPO and its a Price Opinion and I am not under USPAP and my BPO says its not an appraisal . BUT as an Appraiser I am under USPAP so I use that Word Value and that magically makes it an-appraisal and I certify my Price Opinion or Opinion of Price and call it a Opinion of Value. Again its all word semantics and nothing changes the appraisal as as long as the appraiser comply with USPAP and certifies it then all is good.

Well...sorry my friend but it is not just about I did X, but it is okay because I sgined I developed an opinion of market value.

Your compliance with USPAP is surface , ( at least from what you post ) that is why this topic is not just about semantics, it goes to the heart of appraisal practice. USPAP is not just reporting -I signed I developed an opinion of market value even though I think it is BS - USPAP is appraising, how we appraise, do we understand the USPAP definitions guide our practice and are not just window dressing or some pesky thing on a form .

 

[J Grant]

JG's got it right! Price, is the result; MV is opinion/judgement of what the overall market thinks of the price.

Thanks , you are getting close but I would put it as :

Price, is the result -; MV is My/our opinion/judgement of what the appraisal model develops from analysis of the market and a model hypothetical sale ( of the most probable price, as defined )

I appreciate what you wrote, but it is not about "me " being right, It is about USPAP and it is shocking to see appraisers not understand the most fundamental aspect of it wrt price and value opinion. Not because of semantics but because it affects appraisal practice

The fact that we develop an opinion that is NOT expected to be a fact greatly protects appraisers. .now Understand why appraisers are upset about other possible prices, or why they say we are "not that good " -as if we are expected to predict an actual, fact price !! ( we are not )

 

[J Grant]

Fixed it.

I've only read a little of the numerous recent threads covering this, and even when searching some older subject content today of another topic, lo and behold there was J Grant making a case for this and sidetracking some other thread!... kidding @J Grant, you must stay awake at night dwelling over definitions lol


I don't get what the argument is over here, but your last statement seems to summarize what an opinion of value represents, which is the market's opinion of value that is eventually reflected in a price.

An older MAI instructor who specialized in litigation told us in a class that an appraisal is an opinion of an opinion. It is the appraiser's opinion of the market's opinion. But it's stated in terms of the most probable price that the property would bring in the market.

What's the debate for?

Read this thread and you will understand what the debate is for

 

[J Grant]

I certify my probable Price Opinion or probable Opinion of Price.

Fixed it.

We don't give price opinions including a probable price opinion, or probable opinion of price....

so how did this fix it ?

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Sine(sic) appraisals are under USPAP

Appraisers are not required to be regulated by USPAP for ALL things. And all appraisers do not even have to have a license. So such blanket statements are incorrect. An appraisal is a price prediction regardless the license status of the valuer.

market value is that value inferred by a competent observer from sufficient patterns of clearly understood, correctly reported, representative, and uncompelled transactions found in an adequate market which is either identical or sufficiently congruent to the market in which the property will be traded​

 

[glenn walker]

Fixed it.

We don't give price opinions including a probable price opinion, or probable opinion of price....

so how did this fix it ?

We do give Price opinions and in fact when a home sells for $400,000 and we come in at $390,000 we just arrived at a new and lower price opinion because Price is a fact and Value is an opinion. The Boys at USPAP has it backwards as value is all in the eyes of the beholder and the word value should be stricken from the form and certification as its not an accurate description of what we really do. The Difference Between Price and Value. Price can be understood as the money or amount to be paid, to get something. And value implies the utility of worth of the commodity of service for an individual. Price is the amount of money paid by the buyer to the seller in exchange for any product and service. The fact is on a refinance the entire definition of value is misleading as we have no evidence of it's value because we have no agreed upon sales price.