Tell us how you really feel about appraisers ...

[George Hatch]

AMC predation is about the fees we always agreed on that. You are changing the narrative. You conflate the appraisers' concern aobut fees with being not sincere about public trust or other issues. r

You got that right.

You don't even know and you definitely can't prove that the AMC appraisals or the waivers are even creating a problem in the pricing trends in the RE markets. Or not creating a problem in the RE markets. You're making an allegation on the fact-free basis.

The moral judgment is supposed to come AFTER the analysis, not in lieu of it. I don't know what the answer is to that question either, but unlike you I am willing to ask that question prior to making the allegation. Maybe it is a real problem and maybe it isn't.. All we do know is that after 15 years of this we haven't yet been seeing any huge losses at the lenders that we could attribute to these policies.

Have you yet considered what you're going to do if it comes to pass that additional losses attributable to these programs never do show up? Because if that's how it actually turns out then appraisers will never be able to shake the AMC monkey of their backs.

 

[NC Appraising]

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[Surf Cat]

While we are responsible for providing an independent estimate of a property's value, we operate within a system where lenders, mortgage brokers, and Realtors have substantial influence as Gobears pointed out.

Lenders have grown tired of us being speed bumps and have now come up with "go around" alternatives to comply with appraisal regulations. Their pressure on the AMC to pressure the appraiser via ROV's is no different from the mortgage broker days. They want to process the loan and make money.

Mortgage brokers.... just seeing that term equals "conflicts of interest" when it came to influencing the appraiser for value. Nobody slapped their hands for pressuring appraisers.

Realtors have a vested interest in the real estate selling at a certain price... their BPO's and CMA's influence the selection of comparables (even though they shouldn't to an appraiser) and are critical for determining the value and making the sale "happen". Buy downs, concessions, and other tricks of the trade to close the sale to make the commission and make money. Everything's fine with them if it all goes smoothly. If there's a value issue, they're smiling, friendly persona goes from Dr Jekyll to Mr Hyde condemning the appraiser to deal killer status.

Now, not all of the above entities are completely corrupt with bad players. I just don't think the weight of the public trust should be completely on the appraiser's shoulders....

Ensuring public trust requires scrutiny of all entities in the real estate transaction process, not just the appraisal part.....

 

[George Hatch]

"public trust in the appraisal profession" rests solely with the appraisers. not with anyone else

 

[J Grant]

You got that right.

You don't even know and you definitely can't prove that the AMC appraisals or the waivers are even creating a problem in the pricing trends in the RE markets. Or not creating a problem in the RE markets. You're making an allegation on the fact-free basis.

The moral judgment is supposed to come AFTER the analysis, not in lieu of it. I don't know what the answer is to that question either, but unlike you I am willing to ask that question prior to making the allegation. Maybe it is a real problem and maybe it isn't.. All we do know is that after 15 years of this we haven't yet been seeing any huge losses at the lenders that we could attribute to these policies.

Have you yet considered what you're going to do if it comes to pass that additional losses attributable to these programs never do show up? Because if that's how it actually turns out then appraisers will never be able to shake the AMC monkey of their backs.

I did not predict losses from WAIVERs - I said they can impact pricing trends in markets.
Does it matter what you or I speculate or do not speculate?
Using WAIVERS in mass scale for origination loans and purchase loans is realtively new. Where is a 15 year history of it?
Since there is no disclosure on public records or MLS as to which properties got WAIVER loans, it is not possible to track their performance. What does that lack of transparency indicate?

 

[NC Appraising]

While we are responsible for providing an independent estimate of a property's value, we operate within a system where lenders, mortgage brokers, and Realtors have substantial influence as Gobears pointed out.

Lenders have grown tired of us being speed bumps and have now come up with "go around" alternatives to comply with appraisal regulations. Their pressure on the AMC to pressure the appraiser via ROV's is no different from the mortgage broker days. They want to process the loan and make money.

Mortgage brokers.... just seeing that term equals "conflicts of interest" when it came to influencing the appraiser for value. Nobody slapped their hands for pressuring appraisers.

Realtors have a vested interest in the real estate selling at a certain price... their BPO's and CMA's influence the selection of comparables (even though they shouldn't to an appraiser) and are critical for determining the value and making the sale "happen". Buy downs, concessions, and other tricks of the trade to close the sale to make the commission and make money. Everything's fine with them if it all goes smoothly. If there's a value issue, they're smiling, friendly persona goes from Dr Jekyll to Mr Hyde condemning the appraiser to deal killer status.

Now, not all of the above entities are completely corrupt with bad players. I just don't think the weight of the public trust should be completely on the appraiser's shoulders....

Ensuring public trust requires scrutiny of all entities in the real estate transaction process, not just the appraisal part.....

My lender is giving around 8k to the borrowers if they use the builders preffered lender.

The builder is buying down the rate, some at 30 years.....

You know you are toast if you come in below the contract price....

 

[J Grant]

"public trust in the appraisal profession" rests solely with the appraisers. not with anyone else

The performance of appraisers reflects how they behave wrt the public trust
However, appraisaers do not operate in a vacuum

Lack of support wrt protection from client retaliation and value pressure, allowing AMC fee predation, irrational tight turn times not allowing time to adequately research, etc, all impact how well appraisers can perform to earn the public trust.

 

[George Hatch]

I did not predict losses from WAIVERs - I said they can impact pricing trends in markets.
Does it matter what you or I speculate or do not speculate?
Using WAIVERS in mass scale for origination loans and purchase loans is realtively new. Where is a 15 year history of it?
Since there is no disclosure on public records or MLS as to which properties got WAIVER loans, it is not possible to track their performance. What does that lack of transparency indicate?

Nice pivot. Because 5 minutes ago you were using the term AMC Predation as if there is some correlation between appraisal fees and your claim that you're worried about the RE markets running away.

Your own discourse proves my point.

 

[George Hatch]

The performance of appraisers reflects how they behave wrt the public trust
However, appraisaers do not operate in a vacuum

Lack of support wrt protection from client retaliation and value pressure, allowing AMC fee predation, irrational tight turn times not allowing time to adequately research, etc, all impact how well appraisers can perform to earn the public trust.

Appraisal standards apply to appraiser conduct. Regardless of the external factors. You're not at all wrong about the existence of those external factors but if the discussion is about the RE markets and pricing trends then "sloppy" doesn't necessarily translate into gross overvaluation.

It's not that hard to just tell the truth in an appraisal report. Even a HS kid can do it.

 

[J Grant]

Nice pivot. Because 5 minutes ago you were using the term AMC Predation as if there is some correlation between appraisal fees and your claim that you're worried about the RE markets running away.

Your own discourse proves my point.

Nope. I never said or implied that. You have it all wrong - I said WAIVERS and the affect of value pressure which the AMC fail to prevent can impact markets.

I treat the fee as its own problem -