The Appraiser Shortage Myth Part 43

[djd09]

Are AMCs licensed for public trust? Or are they profit companies. Remember USPAP requires no bias. Bias exists in others. Ask Corelogic.

 

[J Grant]

I don't care if you lower your fee or not, but your incessant whining regarding fees and insistence that you be paid some sort of government mandated fee is absurd

Your posts are condescending and irritating, and can go beyond that into insulting. Making personal, derogatory statements such as above ( incessant whining) come as natural to you as breathing. Please stick to the issues if at all possible.

I am speaking from my point of experience as you do yours. I explore lots of different solutions in my posts, among them a govt mandated minimum fee for this segment of lender work. So what of it- it works very well for VA panel. If you don't personally like it, that does not elevate your opinion above mine, nor make posts advocating for it "whiny"-

It's hypocritical, that you hammer appraisers for exploring a govt solution, including a mandated min fee, when the AMC and lenders actively lobby and advocate to influence govt policy in their favor.

 

[Michigan CG]

Are AMCs licensed for public trust? Or are they profit companies. Remember USPAP requires no bias. Bias exists in others. Ask Corelogic.

AMCs, banks, lenders, my cleaning lady don't have to abide by USPAP, only appraisers do.

 

[BRCJR]

OMG...everyone but the COW state appraisers have been weighing in with their hypotheticals and theories re shortages in their respective markets.. It's not like any of the COW state appraisers dont participate here. Those who could provide better insight stay silent

They are covered up and 30 to 90 days behind. I bet they do not frequent the site very much, right now.

 

[timd354]

Your posts are condescending and irritating, and can go beyond that into insulting. Making personal, derogatory statements such as above ( incessant whining) come as natural to you as breathing. Please stick to the issues if at all possible.

What can I say, you incessantly whine about fees, if you find my comments about your incessant whining about fees to be insulting so be it. In any case, It just gives you another opportunity to make another post and further run up you monthly post count, so I am doing you a favor anyhow.

 

[Michigan CG]

among them a govt mandated minimum fee for this segment of lender work.

Why would anyone want that? Should barbers also have a minimum fee mandated by the government? How about a mechanic? Pilots? Nurses? Doctors? The lawn boy?

The government gave you Dodd Frank and now you want more government?

 

[Deleted member 130081]

LOL. I said no such thing. I did say that a cost plus model would not address the perceived fee issue, and by that I did not mean that there is not a fee issue - I meant that the problem (which is very real) is not what many perceive it to be, and because of that they are pursuing incorrect solutions, IMO.

Those in the "Eli camp" assert that AMCs control prices. Yet, they cannot then explain the current prices in places like Portland, Seattle and Nashville. If fees are really controlled by AMCs rather than being market driven, then how do you explain fees in those areas? Do the AMCs just love the appraiser in those cities more, and so they decided to give them a big pay bump? Or did supply and demand simply drive the fees up?

I ask appraisers to tell me what their fee is. I then compare that fee to other appraisers in the same market who provide similar quality and service (i.e. I run the comps) and by doing that I measure market rates. What about that is contrary to a free market? The ones who dislike that system the most are the ones who want to charge more than most of the appraisers of similar quality are charging. I understand how anyone who sells a product or service would prefer to operate in a non-competitive environment. And, truthfully, appraisers did get to operate in a non-competitive environment for a long time. So, I understand the longing to return to those days, but that is not the world that a large percentage of appraisal business (residential appraisal business in particular) runs through today.

Well thanks for responding DW. Others have said I have gone a bit too personal towards you and I will have to concede they are right - for that I apologize. I feel you have made comments that are insulting to myself and to the profession as a whole, which is why I ended up going where I did, however that is no excuse, so...sorry about that (what can I say, you hit a nerve). I do not apologize for anything else I have said.

With the niceties out of the way, I want to address the context of market value. As we all know, when we talk about market value as appraisers, we must define the context. Simply spouting the term market value is not enough, as the term itself is too general to hold meaning. It appears your contention is that the way AMCs operate, pooling labor on a mass scale, is all fair and everyone ought to consider that market value. Please correct me if I have read that wrong. My contention, is that you can call that market value all day if you like, but the contextual definition you would need to use to "make it so" (you're welcome Treki), would be one that is in fact not typical in any other industry I can think of. I have asked you repeatedly in this thread to provide examples of other industries that behave in a similar way, but that question is yet to receive an answer. Further, and I ask anyone more well-versed in regulations on the matter to chime in if I am misinterpreting, it is my understanding that Reasonable and Customary as laid out in the regs, requires the fees to be based on direct-lender work, not what AMCs receive through their atypical recruiting/assigning methods. I think it is telling that the regs went so far as to put that clause in there, and my take on that is the writers understood quite plainly that the way AMCs obtain the fees they do is not "free market" in the traditional sense.

Now, I understand AMCs have an interest in changing the perception of what market value is and what customary is and what reasonable is. However, that is a biased interest. Maybe someday all goods and services will be handled the way AMCs operate today (God help us), but for now they are not.

Another point that must not be over-looked here, is that the AMC model did not come to occupy the market share it enjoys today through traditional free-market behavior, rather has capitalized on government action that violently disrupted an other-wise free-market system. When you go on and on about how appraisers ought to simply raise their prices (and there is truth to that), it is unfair to ignore how appraisers started accepting the lower fees in the first place. Not unlike trying to undo a poorly written law, once the behavior becomes established, it is very slow and difficult to turn back around. It would be interesting to see where fees would go if AMCs were taken out. While I am not so naïve to think that will ever happen, it would be interesting to watch what the "market" would do if it did.

 

[timd354]

AMCs, banks, lenders, my cleaning lady don't have to abide by USPAP, only appraisers do.

It is sad that many of those to whom USPAP applies don't understand even most basic things about USPAP, like, who USPAP applies to

 

[Eli]

Are AMCs licensed for public trust? Or are they profit companies. Remember USPAP requires no bias. Bias exists in others. Ask Corelogic.

Along that line is where LA will have hay day in court. "Appraisal practice". They will beat antitrust allegations too and reverse it. Lol

It will be like ricochet.

 

[TRESinc]

Switch your business model to 100% cost plus, we can deal with our own behavior.

so danny now owns SL and created their business model? damn. wonder why he is still only a chief appraiser and not listed as owner..