The Appraiser Shortage Myth Part 43

[hastalavista]

Which only brings us back to the only viable option at present for appraisers- don't work for an AMC unless they pay well. Since the two are mutually exclusive in most cases, least try to limit AMC work if you must do some and seek out other clients.

Finally, something I can agree with you on; with an emphasis (that you may or may not agree with)....

I don't work for AMCs because I charge a higher fee and require a longer turn-time than most are willing to accept. I'll assume that you (and many others on this thread) feel the same way and are in the same boat.
But I'm not going to stop anyone else from quoting a fee they think is sufficient for their business model and accept a turn-time that is much faster than I am willing to do if (a) it works for that appraiser and (b) it meets the minimum standards. If they are quoting an unsustainable fee, they'll have to change or go out of business. If they are producing substandard work, they'll eventually get removed or find out that it costs more to correct the mistakes at the low fee than it would to quote a longer turn time, complete fewer jobs, but get them right the first time.

I was at a local appraisal meeting a few weeks ago. About 45-appraisers (I might have been the only commercial appraiser in the room). Many of them work for AMCs and are succesful. Many of them work for a fee that is less than I'm willing to take. Why shouldn't they be able to price their service and quote their workflow as they see fit (just as I am able to do)?

Like you...

... [at] least try to limit AMC work if you must do some and seek out other clients.

I give the same advice and have given it for as long as I can remember on this forum.

 

[J Grant]

Requiring a fixed cap or requiring a fixed percentage IS price fixing. That's not even open to debate. Familiarize yourself with the laws pertaining to this issue; they're well established.

How can it be price fixing, if the total price can be any additional monies paid as the price? Any amount can comprise teh amount, only the capped % portion can come from a certain source Borrower paid amount)? T

Regarding laws-The HUD blended fee is proprietary to the HUD form, and appraisal regulations around fees have proprietary exceptions to general aw , regulations thaht pertain only to appraisals-such as an appraiser is not not allowed to charge a % of the value of the property as a fee, or TRID, , or who can order an appraisal, things that do not apply to genera law. (same as AMC has their industry regs in DF ) This could work along the similar proprietary lines- but if it is not a feasible option, it is not.

 

[The Warrior Monk]

Yes, let's just start capping this fee and that fee, whether we do it as a dollar amount or cap it as a percentage of something because once we start down that road, nobody will want to cap appraiser fees, right?

Capping a fee is not the same as capping a percent of contribution toward the total fee from a source (such as borrower paid)

Yes it is.

As an example you may come across in the course of practice deals with real estate agents. The principle broker receives the total fee (commission). However, that principle broker MAY NOT set across the board fixed percentages, caps, fixed dollar amounts, etc. that are paid to the listing and/or selling agent. It is all negotiable.

Don't believe me? Call NAR, ask them yourself, and ask why they can't do it.

 

[J Grant]

Many of them work for AMCs and are succesful. Many of them work for a fee that is less than I'm willing to take. Why shouldn't they be able to price their service and quote their workflow as they see fit (just as I am able to do)?

I appreciate your post . Regarding the above= wouldn't all those appraisers be more successful if the business in the AMC model was such hat they could charge higher fees and and still be busy with AMC work?

Aka,how do you know they are successful- because they could afford gas in their car to get to the seminar lol? You really don't' know, as many like to put on a front and not admit the reality- though some may indeed be doing well if they can do the high volume pace, all of those appraisers would be doing better if the fees were not so low on the AMC side.

I understand your argument, and we agree on some aspects which is nice.

 

[Deleted member 130081]

Finally, something I can agree with you on; with an emphasis (that you may or may not agree with)....

I don't work for AMCs because I charge a higher fee and require a longer turn-time than most are willing to accept. I'll assume that you (and many others on this thread) feel the same way and are in the same boat.
But I'm not going to stop anyone else from quoting a fee they think is sufficient for their business model and accept a turn-time that is much faster than I am willing to do if (a) it works for that appraiser and (b) it meets the minimum standards. If they are quoting an unsustainable fee, they'll have to change or go out of business. If they are producing substandard work, they'll eventually get removed or find out that it costs more to correct the mistakes at the low fee than it would to quote a longer turn time, complete fewer jobs, but get them right the first time.

I was at a local appraisal meeting a few weeks ago. About 45-appraisers (I might have been the only commercial appraiser in the room). Many of them work for AMCs and are succesful. Many of them work for a fee that is less than I'm willing to take. Why shouldn't they be able to price their service and quote their workflow as they see fit (just as I am able to do)?

Like you...

I give the same advice and have given it for as long as I can remember on this forum.

Do any of the appraisers you spoke with who make the AMC fees work for them have trainees?

 

[J Grant]

Yes it is.

As an example you may come across in the course of practice deals with real estate agents. The principle broker receives the total fee (commission). However, that principle broker MAY NOT set across the board fixed percentages, caps, fixed dollar amounts, etc. that are paid to the listing and/or selling agent. It is all negotiable.

Don't believe me? Call NAR, ask them yourself, and ask why they can't do it.

I used to be an agent. It is not the same thing. First of all brokers/agents can charge a % based on sale price of house, appraisers can not charge a percent of value of property. Second , the $ amounts are so large on commissions the fee splits make sense and can be absorbed- a $16,000 commission split 4 ways is a lot different than a $500 borrower fee with AMC grabbing $250 and leaving appriser $250. The margins around appraiser fees are small on regular lender work and there is no room for the AMC in them- the AMC uses the blended fee to offer free of cost service to the lender, the whole thing is a sham.

brokers help agents with adverting, national exposure, training, support etc, and they want the agent to make the highest commission and most $ possible-, unlike the AMC who has a reverse interests- paying the lowest to teh appraiser

 

[DWiley]

You do know the C&R law was in effect 4/1/2011??

Finding legal religion now?????


.

Certainly I know that. And all the C&R processes we have in place now were in place then. But I do appreciate your concern

Some like to sit in here and play lawyer. That's nice - but I rely on actual lawyers, not appraisers who highlight only the parts of the laws that they like

 

[The Warrior Monk]

I used to be an agent. It is not the same thing. First of all brokers/agents can charge a % based on sale price of house, appraisers can not charge a percent of value of property.

That's not relevant to this discussion, or even your discussion. The total fee is the total fee; it doesn't matter how or where it came from.

Second , the $ amounts are so large

Utterly irrelevant to the discussion. The size of the "total fee" has nothing to do with price fixing.

BTW, I'm also an agent, and my principle broker is an attorney who is an expert in real estate matters.

 

[Deleted member 130081]

Finally, something I can agree with you on; with an emphasis (that you may or may not agree with)....

I don't work for AMCs because I charge a higher fee and require a longer turn-time than most are willing to accept. I'll assume that you (and many others on this thread) feel the same way and are in the same boat.
But I'm not going to stop anyone else from quoting a fee they think is sufficient for their business model and accept a turn-time that is much faster than I am willing to do if (a) it works for that appraiser and (b) it meets the minimum standards. If they are quoting an unsustainable fee, they'll have to change or go out of business. If they are producing substandard work, they'll eventually get removed or find out that it costs more to correct the mistakes at the low fee than it would to quote a longer turn time, complete fewer jobs, but get them right the first time.

I was at a local appraisal meeting a few weeks ago. About 45-appraisers (I might have been the only commercial appraiser in the room). Many of them work for AMCs and are succesful. Many of them work for a fee that is less than I'm willing to take. Why shouldn't they be able to price their service and quote their workflow as they see fit (just as I am able to do)?

Like you...

I give the same advice and have given it for as long as I can remember on this forum.

Do you have any comment on post #554? I was making points and comments in this thread in-part based on my limited understanding of the laws. I requested someone with a better understanding chime in and was thankful you posted the portion of the law that you did, which led me to conclude some portions of support I was relying on were wrong. However, now it appears your post that included an excerpt of the law is only half the story, and the points I was making were right (IMO). Care to defend that?

 

[Deleted member 130081]

Certainly I know that. And all the C&R processes we have in place now were in place then. But I do appreciate your concern

Some like to sit in here and play lawyer. That's nice - but I rely on actual lawyers, not appraisers who highlight only the parts of the laws that they like

What a funny thing for you to say.