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These are the Morons Who are Running Climate with Our Government

... does CO2 control temperature :unsure: is average temperature meaningful :unsure: if so there is no CO2 underneath trees, it's all where the sun is :ROFLMAO:
Surface temperatures are not the same as ambient air temperatures.
 
are you saying that the average surface temperature in the shade is the same as without...keep trying greta :rof:
 
it is almost as meaningless as measuring to the inch when you cannot even measure to the foot...and no one else does it like that :rof:
 
Having a single generating source for all of the electricity for the U.S. is ignorant if just not plain stupid. How easy of a target would that be for those that have nefarious intentions. Think about the power loss when transmitting that power thousand of miles to the east coast. The grid between say Arizona and the east coast would almost have to have a high capacity direct line to the east coast to handle it. Using existing grids would require upgrading to handle large amounts of "pass through" power to leap frog to the areas that would have high demand. What happens if you have a failure between AZ and the east coast or any high usage area, millions without power instead of hundreds or thousands at a time. Is it even possible to find 10,000 sq miles suitable for that large of a project. It is a theory at the best since I am sure that Grok didn't take into account the additional limitations and requirements, including the estimated $5T needed to just upgrade the current grid

I think the 100x100 reference was to demonstrate the idea that the area required isn't as large as you would think placing all of that in one place would be dumb

A - the size of the storage batteries (and there would necessarily be hundreds of them) would be tremendous and outstrip the entire supply of lithium worldwide just for the US.
B - the environmental hazards would be worse than all the pollution that exists today. Re= the battery facility fire in LA during the winter fires.
C - Such a system would be requiring a capacity in the terawatt-hours (TWh).
D - a 100 mile by 100 mile concentration of solar panels struck by a huge storm, lightning, tornado, or fire would blackout the entire nation.
E - Pick a 10,000 SQ Mile area of any state that is unoccupied, build this system, and not destroy an entire ecology? White Sands? Zuni reservation? Navajo Reservation? Painted Desert? Which Indian reservation gets sacrificed? Tohono O'Odham? Ft. Apache? Gila River? Or Kofa Natl Refuge? Who gets sacrificed for the "good of the nation"?
F - Solar panels are best for home use and little more. And even those destabilize the grid. When a huge amount of wind hit the NW, it generated a huge amount of electricity from wind generators which, by law, was required to be used or pay for anyway. So, in such events, the entire base grid must shut down while wind is monitored by the second and idled gas and coal plants are still maintaining steam pressure to respond instantly if the wind suddenly slows. It is totally inefficient and wrecks the efficiency of the entire grid.

Remember when the entire grid was shut down a few years ago? The blackout of 2003 started with a mere limb on a power line. It was a hot day and people were turning on AC. the powerlines got hot which expands and the lines sag. One sagged into a limb and the automatic shutdown triggered an effort to maintain power on other lines that now were overloaded. This resulted in a cascade of sequential shutdowns that affected several states and even up into Canada. It was a rolling blackout. More than 508 generating units at 265 power plants shut down during the outage & It took hours to restore. That's because you have to energize each line as you slowly ramp up the generating power.

makes sense good answer

I asked Grok to rebut your answer lol

Below is a condensed 500-word rebuttal to the oil production expert’s critique of a proposed 100 mile by 100 mile (10,000 square mile) solar farm, addressing each point (A–F) with arguments for or against, grounded in data and practical considerations.---**A. Battery Size and Lithium Supply** *Claim:* Hundreds of massive batteries would exhaust global lithium supplies. *Response:* Lithium-ion batteries aren’t the only solution. Flow batteries, pumped hydro (90% of current grid storage), and emerging sodium-based batteries reduce lithium reliance. Global lithium reserves (98 million tons, USGS 2023) face pressure, but recycling and diversified storage make this manageable. While TWh-scale storage is a challenge, it’s not a dealbreaker with a mixed energy approach.**B. Environmental Hazards** *Claim:* Battery storage hazards (e.g., LA facility fire) outweigh current pollution. *Response:* Battery fires are rare and manageable with modern safety systems, unlike fossil fuel disasters (e.g., oil spills). Solar’s lifecycle impact is lower than coal or gas, which drive air pollution and climate change. Mining for batteries has costs, but sustainable practices mitigate this. Claiming batteries are worse than all pollution exaggerates their impact compared to fossil fuels’ ongoing harm.**C. Terawatt-Hour Storage Needs** *Claim:* The system requires TWh-scale storage. *Response:* This is accurate—US electricity demand (~4,000 TWh/year) demands massive storage for solar’s variability. Current global battery capacity (~45 GWh, 2023) is far short, but falling costs (lithium-ion down 90% since 2010) and alternatives like pumped hydro make it feasible over time. A diverse energy mix (wind, hydro) and demand-side management reduce storage needs, making this a hurdle, not a showstopper.**D. Natural Disaster Vulnerability** *Claim:* A storm or tornado hitting the farm would blackout the nation. *Response:* A single 10,000 square mile farm is vulnerable, but a distributed grid with smaller solar sites nationwide mitigates this. Solar panels withstand harsh weather (e.g., hail resistance), and grid redundancy with diverse sources ensures resilience. Fossil fuel plants face similar risks (e.g., hurricane-disrupted refineries). Proper design avoids single-point failures, countering the blackout concern.**E. Ecological Impact** *Claim:* No 10,000 square mile area is unoccupied; building sacrifices ecosystems or reservations. *Response:* Strategic siting on degraded lands, brownfields, or via agrivoltaics (solar with crops) minimizes ecological harm. Floating solar on reservoirs avoids land use. While large projects disrupt wildlife, impacts are less than fossil fuel extraction (e.g., coal mining). Careful planning avoids sensitive areas, making this a planning challenge, not an impossibility.**F. Grid Stability** *Claim:* Solar destabilizes the grid, citing wind inefficiencies and the 2003 blackout. *Response:* Variable renewables challenge stability, but smart grids, forecasting, and storage balance supply. The 2003 blackout stemmed from poor grid management, not renewables. Distributed solar enhances resilience, reducing reliance on vulnerable lines. Inefficiencies (e.g., NW wind) reflect policy issues, not solar’s limits. With upgrades, solar integrates effectively.---**Conclusion** The expert’s concerns highlight real challenges—storage scale, ecological trade-offs, grid integration—but overstate solar’s flaws. With diversified storage, smart siting, and grid modernization, a massive solar farm is viable within a broader energy mix, complementing other sources sustainably.
 
I think the 100x100 reference was to demonstrate the idea that the area required isn't as large as you would think placing all of that in one place would be dumb



makes sense good answer

I asked Grok to rebut your answer lol

Below is a condensed 500-word rebuttal to the oil production expert’s critique of a proposed 100 mile by 100 mile (10,000 square mile) solar farm, addressing each point (A–F) with arguments for or against, grounded in data and practical considerations.---**A. Battery Size and Lithium Supply** *Claim:* Hundreds of massive batteries would exhaust global lithium supplies. *Response:* Lithium-ion batteries aren’t the only solution. Flow batteries, pumped hydro (90% of current grid storage), and emerging sodium-based batteries reduce lithium reliance. Global lithium reserves (98 million tons, USGS 2023) face pressure, but recycling and diversified storage make this manageable. While TWh-scale storage is a challenge, it’s not a dealbreaker with a mixed energy approach.**B. Environmental Hazards** *Claim:* Battery storage hazards (e.g., LA facility fire) outweigh current pollution. *Response:* Battery fires are rare and manageable with modern safety systems, unlike fossil fuel disasters (e.g., oil spills). Solar’s lifecycle impact is lower than coal or gas, which drive air pollution and climate change. Mining for batteries has costs, but sustainable practices mitigate this. Claiming batteries are worse than all pollution exaggerates their impact compared to fossil fuels’ ongoing harm.**C. Terawatt-Hour Storage Needs** *Claim:* The system requires TWh-scale storage. *Response:* This is accurate—US electricity demand (~4,000 TWh/year) demands massive storage for solar’s variability. Current global battery capacity (~45 GWh, 2023) is far short, but falling costs (lithium-ion down 90% since 2010) and alternatives like pumped hydro make it feasible over time. A diverse energy mix (wind, hydro) and demand-side management reduce storage needs, making this a hurdle, not a showstopper.**D. Natural Disaster Vulnerability** *Claim:* A storm or tornado hitting the farm would blackout the nation. *Response:* A single 10,000 square mile farm is vulnerable, but a distributed grid with smaller solar sites nationwide mitigates this. Solar panels withstand harsh weather (e.g., hail resistance), and grid redundancy with diverse sources ensures resilience. Fossil fuel plants face similar risks (e.g., hurricane-disrupted refineries). Proper design avoids single-point failures, countering the blackout concern.**E. Ecological Impact** *Claim:* No 10,000 square mile area is unoccupied; building sacrifices ecosystems or reservations. *Response:* Strategic siting on degraded lands, brownfields, or via agrivoltaics (solar with crops) minimizes ecological harm. Floating solar on reservoirs avoids land use. While large projects disrupt wildlife, impacts are less than fossil fuel extraction (e.g., coal mining). Careful planning avoids sensitive areas, making this a planning challenge, not an impossibility.**F. Grid Stability** *Claim:* Solar destabilizes the grid, citing wind inefficiencies and the 2003 blackout. *Response:* Variable renewables challenge stability, but smart grids, forecasting, and storage balance supply. The 2003 blackout stemmed from poor grid management, not renewables. Distributed solar enhances resilience, reducing reliance on vulnerable lines. Inefficiencies (e.g., NW wind) reflect policy issues, not solar’s limits. With upgrades, solar integrates effectively.---**Conclusion** The expert’s concerns highlight real challenges—storage scale, ecological trade-offs, grid integration—but overstate solar’s flaws. With diversified storage, smart siting, and grid modernization, a massive solar farm is viable within a broader energy mix, complementing other sources sustainably.
So which answer that Grok gave is the "right" or viable answer. You get the answer to the question you ask and if you don't introduce the obvious variables into your question you get what. Pretty much a theoretical answer. Which is a problem in itself because the typical person asking a question is not going to introduce the variables and will take the answer they get and run with it. Kinda like the MSM does with the "news" that ends up being false or very misleading
 
So which answer that Grok gave is the "right" or viable answer. You get the answer to the question you ask and if you don't introduce the obvious variables into your question you get what. Pretty much a theoretical answer. Which is a problem in itself because the typical person asking a question is not going to introduce the variables and will take the answer they get and run with it. Kinda like the MSM does with the "news" that ends up being false or very misleading

basically what you and T said is right but unless T refutes this I did not know the cost to generate power from solar is so cheap compared to others in a perfect scenario. Interesting nonetheless
 

  • The post highlights a 0.6°C global temperature drop observed on July 4, 2025, challenging the CO₂-driven warming theory, as neutral ENSO conditions and waning Tonga volcanic effects suggest alternative cooling mechanisms, supported by a 2022 NASA study showing the Tonga eruption’s water vapor impact is temporary.
  • Historical climate data, including the Roman and Medieval Warm Periods, indicate natural temperature fluctuations predate industrial CO₂ emissions, aligning with a 2010 Solomon et al. study in Science that links stratospheric water vapor to decadal climate shifts, questioning the sole focus on greenhouse gases.
  • Recent thermal history models from ScienceDirect suggest smaller planets can cool slower due to tectonic dynamics, implying Earth’s cooling in 2025 could reflect natural geophysical processes rather than human activity, urging a reevaluation of current climate models.
riddle me this... :rof:
 
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