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This is a MUST READ

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David C. Johnson

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Frank,

It appears an associates degree would be required for residential appraising and a bachelors degree would be required for commercial appraising. And that these requirements would not go into effect for three or four years. And, should this present a hardship, just the most pertinent courses could be taken in lieu of the actual degree. And none of this would effect those currently practicing.

Unless there is something I'm missing, I believe the eduction requirements make sense. I do not foresee a shortage of residential appraisers in the foreseeable future partly as a function of less demand for these services due to (the evil) AVMs. It appears the timing for raising the bar for residential appraisers could never be better -- and it certainly would be good timing for existing residential appraisers who plan to stay in the field -- degreed or not.

Commercial appraising is an area where extra education is a real good idea in my book. Picture the dismay on the CFO's face when his company's several million-dollar expansion plans have just been nixed where the Qualifications of Appraiser Sheet from the report proudly boasts a full four years
of high school or maybe a GED, if that. Do you currently need any education at all to be an appraiser?

An odd phenomenon is that some individuals who are heavily invested in college eductions do not seriously consider real estate appraising as a career just because there are no education requirements -- but then, Sally Struthers didn't never say nothing bout not needing no appraisal education!

http://www.gazette.uwo.ca/2001/March/21/Opinions2.htm :D

Frank, designated Appraisal Institute members have good reason not to push the issue, but why are others not in favor of the proposed education requirements?

Regards,

David C. Johnson, Raleigh[/color]
 

Francois K. Gregoire

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
David,

Thanks for taking the time to look at the Exposure Draft. It represents an effort to make serious alterations to the current criteria and we darn sure should be informed.

Thanks also for the link. Will bookmark that one just in case I decide to change careers!!

Before I start spouting off my reasoning on this AQB proposal, I'd rather listen to what some other folks have to say. Besides, I'm up to my eyeballs in work and trying to prepare for the AQB meeting tomorrow in Tampa. There, I'll be able to hear from the AQB themselves the rationale, reasoning and bais for the proposal and hear comments from other attendees to guage the accpetance.

You have my assurance more will be written later.
 
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
General Public
State
North Carolina
Frank, David and other forum participants

All of the changes in appraising which have occurred over the past ten to 15 years can be essentially described as attempts to take our work from the level of a trade to a profession.

Professionalism is recognized by three primary elements.

The first element is that the labor or work must be predominantly an mental or intellectual activity or skill. We have that element.

The second is a recognized code of practice which includes standards of ethical practice. We now have USPAP as the recognized standard of professional competence and ethical performance.

The third is a body of knowledge in an area of study that the average lay person would not have. A professional status in most professions can not be achieved without education at the graduate levels (doctors, lawyers) or without very specialized and formal academic training (nurses, accountants), etc.

The question we must ask ourselves is " Is the current educational requirements sufficient to raise appraising to the level of a profession?"

My thinking is that if we do not require a higher level of general education than high school, we, as appraisers will always be viewed at the bottom of the professional trough.

While there is no guarantee that a college education will help the specific skills of prospective appraisers in a technical sense, a requirement for higher educational levels will tend to improve the profession overall.
So my general philosophy would lead me to support this initiative.

However, I would prefer to see more tested education in the specific skills and applications side of our profession first rather than a broader based initiative. Stated differently, our effort should be placed more in refining individual techniques and methodology, and understanding of concepts by all appraisers rather than just merely raising the general educational level.

Regards

Tom Hildebrandt GAA
 

Francois K. Gregoire

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
Thanks to both David and Tom for the comments.

Rather than write it all over again, here is the comment letter NAR provided to the AQB last year on the last proposal.

NAR LETTER
 

Bryan (OK)

Sophomore Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
I like raising the bar. I have had college and business exposure to most of the topics in one manner or another. My product would suffer had I not gained this experience and exposure.

Not to say that anyone must take the same path I chose, but imagine an 18 year old with a GED and no business experience. That may be why most appraisers I talk with in person abhor commercial appraising. It is complex and has a lot of mathematics and statistical analysis involved. That's what gets my brain rolling. Manipulating numbers is a hoot. Data sets can be manipulated to support most any position. Making sensible assumptions and drawing valid, reasonable, realistic conclusions supported by meaningful analysis is the trick.

Why has the exam been dropped at the trainee level? This test is what made me bone up on my deficient areas. If I weren’t forced to learn the material in fear of failing the exam, I certainly would have spent the time with my family or pursued other leisure activities instead of forcing myself to learn the material and terminology.

While I agree that a degree in psychology or history is not going to aid in the appraisal field, I believe that most of the college experience is learning how to educate oneself in a specific niche to solve a particular problem. My college and work focused on engineering and business. I can honestly say that the engineering positions I previously held typically called upon 20% of the college curriculum taught. Is this the wrong approach? I do not believe that any educational institution has the ability to predict the entire curriculum to satisfy my lifetime requirements. I am the one responsible for educating myself. But I had to learn that.

In the meantime, my two degrees required a total of 175 college hours. One college hour equates to approximately fifty hours of continuing education. We must be competent and educated. The excellent appraisers mentioned w/o a degree (NAR letter) probably didn’t start at that level of competence, they learned by experience. BTW, Extremely well written letter.

Ethics and integrity are the most serious concerns. No amount of education, testing, or training will cure that ill. Sometimes, by creating barriers to entry or minimum experience timelines, the charlatans looking for the quick, easy dollar will look elsewhere. Many engineering students chasing the high starting salaries were converted to the business college after grappling with the First Law of Thermodynamics or partial differential equations.

Sorry for the soapbox. I like the college requirements. It culls the herd. How do we deal with the ethics and integrity issues? Personal accountability seems lacking. Lenders sure won’t turn in the offenders as long as it pads their wallets.

Happy Days,

Bryan
 

Francois K. Gregoire

Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
Tom, Bryan, David,

Thanks for taking the time to read and review the AQB Exposure Draft and for the responses. Hopefully, this is not the only place your comments will be aired. The changes proposed are so significant, you should make sure your State Regulatory Board, your professional associations and the AQB hear your thoughts.

My way of thinking might be swayed if the AQB were to provide answers to a few questoons:

What is the specific problem to be solved?

Would a four year degree cure those ills?

What research exists that suggests a need for appraisers to hold a college degree?

In my mind, a compelling case could be made for increasing the Experience requirement. In fact, it could be made for both State-Certified Residential and for State-Certified General Appraisers. Making more specific requirements for training, supervision and periodic review and critique of progress may have more of an effect on the quality, ability and competence of new appraisers.

Of course, we still don't know if this is the aim of the AQB.
 

Dan/Fla

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
I think that education is good, though some of the dumbest people I have met are college grads, (yes I have my degree) and some of the brightest, have very little formal training. Yes, I believe education is good. But I think standards should be on the training, I know some Certified appraisers out there with more than 10 registered assistance. These registered are not getting the proper training, and these are the ones that will take the class pass the test and hire 10 more plus assistances of their own, and not know as much about appraising the right way as does my 16 year old son that rides with me during summer breaks.

If they want to improve appraisers 4 years, 2 years, or even 1 year of college is not worth as much as Supervisor working with a trainee at least 1 day a week, every week. I do not know how the Appraisal training is were you are, but with my college background, many years in management before I got in this business, then with my hours of school I went through to become an Registered Assistance. I felt I knew nothing about, really appraising. I will admit my first supervisor sent another Registered Assistance, with me to show me how to inspect a house, we went through two houses; I WAS NOW TRAINED and never did anyone ever go with me again, I was an Appraiser.(right) Less than a year later I left, found a good supervisor started day one working with me and as I learned I went more and more on my own, though for next 2 years I do not think 2 days went by without us talking about what I was seeing and doing.

What is scary I check the other day and my 1st supervisor has over 12 assistances under him today here in Florida, and been told some of these assitances are over 100 miles away. Want to improve appraisers, Tell me how any one can train properly more than 5 assistances, or more than even 3 if these assistances have less than a year in business. How can anyone properly train anyone in this business when the trainee is over 100 miles away? I would not do work that far away myself, I do not know that market area, I could learn true, but how many hours would I need to spend there to learn to do a quality appraisal?

Education is great but all the Education in the world, even a person with a doctor’s degree, can not make it as good appraiser without good one on one training.

Frank, That’s my 2 cents worth, I will get off my soap box now.
 

Non Sequitur

Elite Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Louisiana
This deserves a bump.

I am in favor of the educational requirements. This should be a must for ALL in the profession, no matter how long they've been certified. When you dig in to it, its not all that bad.

For a Cert. Res. Appr. - an associates degree or meet OTHER educational requirements in lieu of a degree. Those requirements are seven 3 credit hr courses for a total of 21 credit hours (see pg. 15). Not a bad trade off if you don't have an associates degree.

For a Cert. General Appr. - a bachelors degree or meet OTHER specific educational requirements in lieu of a degree. The requirements are ten courses for a total of 30 credit hours (see pg. 17). Now thats a deal if you don't have a bachelors.

This should not force anyone out of business as long as the AQB allows for a reasonable amount of time for currently certified appraisers to meet the new standards.

This is for Dan in Fla, read pg. 13, "a supervising appraiser may not supervise more than two trainees, at one time." (Thats my non sequitur for today)

On pg 4 the second bullet states: "Recognizing that revisions will take at least one year to adopt, and three years for the states to implement, what should the criteria be 5 to 10 years from now?" This implies that the AQB isn't trying to "throw out" anyone. It seems to me that the AQB is just trying to build some respect for a profession that, if the truth is told, needs it. And if as implied at least 5 years is given to meet the new standards, and you still don't have at least the requirements in lieu of a degree, shame on you not the AQB.
 
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