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Three days of hearings on my same complaints again. I have questions?

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Ray Miller

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Wisconsin
Three days of Hearings

Please understand that these are my feelings and the way I see that things went.

Before I get started let me say I know that the state and federal agencies monitor this forum and pull postings and data from the form as evidence by the State of Wisconsin Jr. Attorney General entering one of my posting as an exhibit in my hearing yesterday. I will always stand behind what I post, unless I learn that I was incorrect. I am by no means perfect, but I do have the where with all to post using my real name and stand behind what I post. I have a great fear of government and those people who work for government who are afraid to let their real names be known.

I just finished up three days of hearings again on the original complaints that were filed against me several years ago. Yes, I have admitted that there were some mistakes in my reports, but none affected the finial conclusion of value of the subject property.

The State of Wisconsin had four new expert witnesses one for each of the reports. I Have no clue as to why they chose new experts over the original experts they had in the first hearing. However that in many, many cases and items in the reports the new experts disagreed with the original expert’s conclusions. So we had to answer a whole new set of questions about the reports. So we have two sets of experts disagreeing with each other over what is wrong with the reports.

I am going to post some things that I gather from the three days and the the state experts said and attested too. Also how their reviews were conducted.

I would very much like your input on this matter for some reasons of my own as it will help me make some decision to proceed in this matter.

So here goes.

One out of the four reports was the finial version of the report that was sent to the lender, the other three were not the final corrected report that were reviewed. So three of the reviewers never reviewed the finial report the lender received nor were they presented by the state to the court.

This is what I felt was said and the way I interpreted things.

1. The finial conclusion was an issue in one of the reports only and that reviewer did not provide any support for his value other then the fact there were a number of sales that could have been used for comparables even though they were not A-Frames.

2. That it makes no difference if an error or errors are found regardless of the magnitude of the error (minor to major) and you are contactdc by the receipt of the report about the problems and submit a corrected report. You are still labial for prosecution because you sent out a report with errors in it. The state can take the interim or first report and act on it. By the way the value was the same on all the corrected reports as it was on the first one received.

3. That a reviewer can present their conclusion of the report with out any statements, supporting documents or reasons in the report to support why they reach the conclusions they did. Except for the fact it violated such and such a provision of USPAP.

4. An expert reviewer can review your report under the wrong standards of USPAP. In other words one of my reports should have been reviewed under the 2005 USPAP and the reviewer used 2006 and gave three hours of testimony using the 2006 USPAP. Should his testimony stand, should I file a complaint?

5. The state attacked my geographic competency in the area I covered because it was a large rural area that I specialized in. Regardless of the number of data bases I have and the way I collect and keep data. it is a voliation of USPAP.

6. That you are limited in the number of appraisal you do. That if the expert only does 200 to 300 reports a year and has superior license and schooling. You should do a substantial less number of appraisals then the four or five hundred you may have done for the simple fact that it should take you longer to complete the report because of your education and license level.

7. That you can not have a signature line that says: Miller Land & Livestock, Co. AP. Lic # xxxx-zzz. That the words Appraiser License must be spelled out.

8. That a reviewer can state that the form was incorrect that I used, because he felt that the subject was a single family attached duplex. That because the legal description did not have the words condo in it. It should not be done on a condo form. We proved that the subject had a 0 lot line conversion in place, was being change from a rental development in to condo ownership, had been listed and sold as a condo twice before I did the appraisal on it. That I should not have used condo comparables but single family home or multi unit homes. We presented these documents into evidence and the record. That this reviewer failed to research the data on the subject and in my appraisal. The reviewer presented nothing to support his claims it was single family attached.

9. It is against USPAP and the LAW to use MLS photos in an appraisal report. This was presented by one of the reviewers. The same one that used the wrong USPAP Standard for review.

10. The reviewer sited you must site the source of your market value even if you use the preprinted Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac forms. You must site a source if not, you have violated USPAP.

11. One reviewer stated you must used comparable in the township if there are a large number of sale, regardless if they are like the subject in design or not. Case in point there was 30 plus sale in this area of ranch type homes with the similar GLA as the subject. However the subject was an A Frame and I went 6 miles and up to find A Frame comparables. I had a total of 5 A-Frames as comparables. He stated I should have use ranch type homes. Because for the simple fact there were no A-Frame sales nearer in the small rural town. This violated USPAP by going a greater distance to find them.

12. One of the reviewers said it is against the LAW and a violation of USPAP if you do not use the Cost Approach in your reports. It is also against the LAW and USPAP if at a later date you add the Cost Approach at the request of the lender and charge for the work, because it should have been include from the start.

13. One of the reviewers the same one above in 12 did a review of my report that was multi parcel and showed that in the report by the legal and title documents. Only the reviewer based his review on one of the parcels and faulted my report because I used the entire 4.5 acres two parcels that I was placing a value on and not just the 1.5 acres that the home sit on. He never once mentions the additional parcel or the additional acreage in his review of my work. That I was in violation of USPAP for using the 4.5 acres. The reviewer I must assume had a copy of my appraisal and the state had a copy of the order showing a request for the 4.5 acres and they had the data from the county or he could have obtain the datat from the county. Should a complaint be filed because he failed to research the subject and only reviewed using the 1.5 acres.

14. The invoice is again part of the work file and should be included as to what rates you charge your clients in a request for your work file. Again the number of hours I worked entered into the picture as well.

. Here is the kicker, the AG stop the proceedings and ask to amend the complaint near the end of my redirect yesterday after more then 2 ½ days, where I made the statement that in 2005 into early 2007, I had a staff that typed part of my reports, help me to gather data of sales, rents in the area I cover, in addition to information on the subject property such as legal, flood plane data and such. That if I did not included each and every ones name that help gather that data and any that help type any part of the report. I was in violation of USPAP. The judge did not allow him to amend the complaint, but it was my under standing he was going to protest the judges ruling and file additional complaints on all my reports for not having that in the report. I in open court and on the record, state that if the AG amended the complaint to include this and or filed new complaints, I would file a blanket complaint on all appraisers in Wisconsin who had and office and staff that helped in preparing appraisal reports. How would you have handled this statement from the AG?

There were many more things that each of the reviews brought up that they said were violations of USPAP that should not even enter into USPAP, but they were represent too by the reviewers.

There were many other things in the hearings that were presented and my attorney did a an excellent job of countering and asking where in USPAP did that apply. Most of the time they could not answer where in USPAP it was.

I felt that not one of the reviewers fully reviewed my work, researched the subject and presented a creditable review considering all the errors that we were able to present to the court in their reviews.

What do you think.
 
Last edited:

JRS at OBX

Elite Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
North Carolina
Sounds like you need to go after the reviewers personally. I would consult my atty. about a civil suit against them. It's sounds like they made plenty of errors on the stand, maybe you can collect some of their E&O.
 

PropertyEconomics

Elite Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2007
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
New Mexico
Ray ...

I would hire a USPAP expert, and I think you can discuss it with quite a few here on the forum to show that it would appear the "experts" have Fannie rules (RULES not LAWS) confused with what USPAP really says.
These new experts should be very easily discredited with proper use of an expert on your part and demanding that these "experts" show within USPAP where these LAWS are.

Finally, I think you should realize that no matter what comes of this, these guys are out to get you. It appears to be pretty simple to understand that. Continue the good fight ... most of what you have posted are not violations of USPAP as best as I can tell.

Good luck.
 

The Dog

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Oregon
Thank the Lord, I am not working in WISCONSIN. I am only hearing one side, however, some of those reviewer if what you are stating is true might well be advised to take a USPAP update course.

Is it the cheese that is getting to some heads up there?
 

Hamlet

Elite Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Ohio
I agree, it seems that they are using Fannie rules and quoting them as USPAP and LAW. They should have to site the souce of their definition to the specific parts of USPAP and the LAW that you are violating. Also good advice to get a USPAP expert of your own.

Hope it all works out.
 

Mary Tiernan

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2003
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Michigan
Per 2006 USPAP:

(b)
The content of a Summary Appraisal Report must be consistent with the intended use of the appraisal and, at a minimum:
(v)
state the type and definition of value and cite the source of the definition;




Comment: Stating the definition of value also requires any comments needed to clearly indicate to the intended users how the definition is being applied.


Each of my reports say see definition of Market Value as defined by Fannie Mae in the attached Limiting Conditions.

viii)
summarize the information analyzed, the appraisal methods and techniques employed, and the reasoning that supports the analyses, opinions, and conclusions; exclusion of the sales comparison approach, cost approach, or income approach must be explained

Per USPAP class, each of my reports states The sales comparison approach to value is the most widely recognized and applicable approach to arrive at an opinion of market value, and is provided within this report. The cost and income approaches are not necessary to arrive at a credible opinion of market value.

(iii)
state information sufficient to identify the real estate involved in the appraisal: 31




Comment: The real estate involved in the appraisal can be specified, for example, by a legal description, address, map reference, copy of a survey or map, property sketch, and/or photographs or the like.

If your report contained all the descriptions and the client's request to include all acreage (2 parcels) you were covered.

Standards Rule 2-3
Each written real property appraisal report must contain a signed certification that is similar in content to the following form:

. . .

When a signing appraiser(s) has relied on work done by others who do not sign the certification, the signing appraiser is responsible for the decision to rely on their work. The signing appraiser(s) is required to have a reasonable basis for believing that those individuals performing the work are competent and that their work is credible.36

The names of individuals providing significant real property appraisal assistance who do not sign a certification must be stated in the certification. It is not required that the description of their assistance be contained in the certification, but disclosure of their assistance is required in accordance with SR 2-2(a), (b), or (c)(vii), as applicable.

Additionally:


Comment: A signed certification is an integral part of the appraisal report. An appraiser who signs any part of the appraisal report, including a letter of transmittal, must also sign this certification.

In an assignment that includes only assignment results developed by the real property appraiser(s), any appraiser(s) who signs a certification accepts full responsibility for all elements of the certification, for the assignment results, and for the contents of the appraisal report. In an assignment that includes personal property, business or intangible asset assignment results not developed by the real property appraiser(s), any real property appraiser(s) who signs a certification accepts full responsibility for the real property elements of the certification, for the real property assignment results, and for the real property contents of the appraisal report.
 

RSW

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Tennessee
Wow! Who did you **** off?
 

The Dog

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Oregon
Ray, I just googled the minutes of the Board of Appraiser in Wisconsin and read through the opinions issues by the court.

I stand by what I said earlier

Thank god I am not licensed in WI.

BTW, my bill for time spend reading your case instead of working is on the way
 

agedaprsr

Freshman Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Florida
Everybody's an Expert

It sounds to me you were the victim of an Institutional Review Appraiser. These Nimrods are typically chosen for their education and/or designations not their experience or in most cases, lack of experience. However, the government institutions tend to draw from their population and therefore, we as appraisers, have to listen to their drivel.

Maybe there is someone else out there that could tell us where it says in USPAP you cannot use MLS photo's. I have used them in the past but typically include a caveat as to why they were used. A small note that the photo was/is a historical MLS photo and was used due to: newer paint, new facade, new landscape, any substantial change etc. .

I would ask if your attorney was present and why he/she did not interrupt the Review Appraiser using the in-correct USPAP and have his or her testimony either stricken or noted as utilizing the wrong source.

I have completed a number of review appraisals in my excess of twenty five years of appraising and still am amazed how some "Reviewers" will search for the smallest error to enable them to throw the appraiser under the bus. Also, it has always been my understanding as a Review Appraiser, according to USPAP, that I am required to have available all my data and supporting documentation in "file" and that as a Review Appraiser if I question your value and/or methods mine should be made available with an explanation of why my methods are better supported.

You should always stipulate that one or more persons aided in the completion of your report. You can add a brief line or two, with a blank to be filled in depending on who helped, in the additional comments section or as an addenda to your Limited Conditions.

Try to remember Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you !

You have to remember when dealing with the aforementioned "experts" that their ability to understand the appraisal process is impaired by the thickness of their rectal walls.
 

Ray Miller

Elite Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Wisconsin
Ray, I just googled the minutes of the Board of Appraiser in Wisconsin and read through the opinions issues by the court.

I stand by what I said earlier

Thank god I am not licensed in WI.

BTW, my bill for time spend reading your case instead of working is on the way


That was the last hearing. This week was the new hearing, those results will not be in for several months now. The lawyers have got to file thier closings, the judge order the state to file four briefs on points of law, then we have to resond to the states closings and filings, then the judge will make his decision, then it is presented to the board and they make thier decision, part of their decision they can over turn the findings of the Court and render their own opinion and decision. At that point I can move to District Court with the case if need be.

In the mean time I have the full intention of filing compaints on all the reviewers from the first hearing to this hearing with the state appraisal board and the ABQ. I have also been working on a number of reviews that I have done that will also be going to the state as complaints.
 
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