Too many units - need a second opinon

[J Grant]

We are not code enforcement or the zoning police. Our purpose is not to"out" an owner for non-compliance. But neither is our purpose to protect an owner or pretend the property is different than what it is to get a loan approved

. If an owner decides to construct an illegal (zoning ) or non-permitted (code enforcement) fourth unit when only three units are allowed, that was the owner's choice. Perhaps nobody ever reported them. Not our problem. Good for Mr. Owner.

But when Mr Owner decides to take out a mortgage, then the appraiser has to report the fourth unit on the appraisal . And ask the client whether the assignment is as is or subject to. Then the lender can decide what they want to do, whether the loan gets rejected or accepted.

 

[Zoe]

Zoning isn't the only issue at play here. What you're looking for is what type of buyer will pay the most for the As Is and how they will proceed with the usage.

As for considering the use of a hypothetical, there are limitations to that. You can't just fabricate an HC for the purposes of expediency in order to avoid doing the analysis of the "as is":

View attachment 106444

Yeah, I speak freely about a subject when I talk with code. I have been to Chicago. They have good code enforcement officers there.

I am not appraising the owner or the client. I appraise real property rights.

 

[Zoe]

Your client may say stop after your preliminary analysis. I don't know.

he mentioned cost to cure, but I would want my client giving me that information if I went down that road on illegal use.

That is above my pay grade. My client would need to know.

Hi, client. I need this, this and this if you want me to proceed with the assignment. Okay?

Code would be a turning point most likely on what avenue I took with the client.

Very possible client will say "stop right now". Send me an invoice.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Respectfully disagree. It IS what it is zoned for

HBU comes in play. Zoning is part of that. And are all the apartments livable? The 'cost to cure' relates to complying with code.

 

[ZZGAMAZZ]

Yes, indeed, PEOPLE can convert a building (physically).

But that is different from an appraiser "converting" a building on an appraisal report, to make it seem to be something other than what exists physically. (without the proper EA or HC or making it subject to changing it physically)

With your above question, I would appraise it on a case-by-case basis, but temporary walls or a makeshift "kitchen" as you describe is not a kitchen- the minimum requirement, at least for lending, is a stove or range cooking source. A water hose, a small fridge, and a toaster oven do not meet a normal buyer standard, either for a kitchen.

If I park a car in my bedroom, it does not turn the bedroom into a garage. If I put a bed in my garage, I can sleep there, but it does not turn the garage into a b edroom;'

People can use or illegally use portions of a dwelling or building however they want. Sleep in the kitchen sink if they want to. But when they get an appraisal done, then the appraiser might have to disclose an illegal use or unsafe conversion of a space, or not legal per zoning use or physical change to a buidling etc.

Did I ever mention that formal written sanction from FHA because I failed to provide comps with a detached supplemental sleeping unit in response to the subject's non-permitted storage shed--BECAUSE THE STORAGE SHED HAD A COT IN THE PICTURE, WHICH REQUIRED ME TO ADDRESS THE FUNCTIONALITY AS A SLEEPING AREA!!!!! So, the bedroom with a car parked inside might indeed be termed a bedroom, like a menu on a table would make a kitchen a restaurant, or ????????????????? LOLL

 

[BJ]

??Appraisers can now decide to reconfigure properties?

If the appraiser is to appraise it as three units, then there HAS TO BE THREE PHYSICAL UNITS. Which would mean making it subject to being converted from four units to three units.

I do not understand, though, how the city got involved in the first place. I've had the client put this on hold until the City of Chicago came back with a determination

The bold above from the OP - the appraiser told the client to put the order on hold until the city of Chigacao came back with a determination. What is the zoning? What does a "determination" mean?

I do not understand this from the OP:The rear building is on a crawl set up with two apartments

What does a "crawl set up" mean? Does it mean that the rear building is reached trhough a basement?

for those who may be familiar with Chicago it is RS-3 zoning. And for different reasons it could not be built today. One such is that zoning requires 2,500 sf of lot size per unit. The City of Chicago has a useful form for this called a Certificate of Zoning Compliance which is a required thing to get for five or fewer units. And in this case the application was sent in for four units and was denied, with a determination by the Dept of Planning as 3 units. So now I know I can check legal nonconforming 3 unit, with a HC. That is how I understand to address this.

 

[George Hatch]

I don't see an HC in this valuation unless the usage in the existing configuration requires improvements or the legally permissible is changing.

HC means value is "Subject to" something happening that doesn't currently exist.​

EA means "I think it's true but I'm not certain of it".​

Two different concepts and applications

 

[J Grant]

for those who may be familiar with Chicago it is RS-3 zoning. And for different reasons it could not be built today. One such is that zoning requires 2,500 sf of lot size per unit. The City of Chicago has a useful form for this called a Certificate of Zoning Compliance which is a required thing to get for five or fewer units. And in this case the application was sent in for four units and was denied, with a determination by the Dept of Planning as 3 units. So now I know I can check legal nonconforming 3 unit, with a HC. That is how I understand to address this.

I am not going to try to understand Chicago zoning from my desk in Florida !
But in many areas, a property built X years ago which does not conform to today's zoning can be grandfathered in, even if that property can not be rebuilt the same way if were destroyed.