Union Time?

[timd354]

You are mistaken. Unions are specifically exempted from anti-trust laws.

True, but that exemption applies when the union represent employees in collective bargaining and is not unlimited...It certainly would not apply to a union composed of independent business owners who tried to collude to set minimum fees that each business owner would accept.. Simply put, a bunch of business owners ,cannot form a cartel or some other cooperative group designed to fix prices, call it a union and be exempt from antitrust laws.

 

[timd354]

I believe you're viewpoint on this issue is confused.
Independent appraisers are treated, for tax & other legal purposes,
as business owners. However, when they are operating in an
environment where there is an oligopoly ("...a state of limited competition,
in which a market is shared by a small number of producers or sellers"),
a free-market, which is what you're envisioning, does *not* exist.

It's one thing when there are thousands of "employers", including,
big banks, small banks, credit unions, mortgage brokers, and yes,
AMCs, looking to hire the services of an appraiser. It's quite another
scenario, when the market for a group of some 50-70,000 appraisers
-read employees- is effectively reduced to under 1,000 (??) "employers"
(most being AMCs).
A concentrated force like that cannot be resisted by a vague group
with no effective group "force", even guerrilla warfare needs someone
or something to band together the peasants so they can as is said
"harass the enemy by surprise raids, sabotaging their communications
and supply lines"

How do we as a group do that? Look to the the AMA, the NAR, and the
BAR Association for models.
We do need an Association that can effectively argue *for* us as a group.

An association is fine, and there are several such as the AI, NAIFA, numerous state coalitions, etc, although they obviously do not have the same power as the NAR or the bankers.. A union for appraisers is useless. By the way, despite the NAR, there are several examples of anti-trust cases brought against real estate brokerages for colluding to fix commissions.

 

[timd354]

I believe you're viewpoint on this issue is confused.
Independent appraisers are treated, for tax & other legal purposes,
as business owners. However, when they are operating in an
environment where there is an oligopoly ("...a state of limited competition,
in which a market is shared by a small number of producers or sellers"),
a free-market, which is what you're envisioning, does *not* exist.

It's one thing when there are thousands of "employers", including,
big banks, small banks, credit unions, mortgage brokers, and yes,
AMCs, looking to hire the services of an appraiser. It's quite another
scenario, when the market for a group of some 50-70,000 appraisers
-read employees- is effectively reduced to under 1,000 (??) "employers"
(most being AMCs).
.

Sorry, but a market in which there are hundreds of potential users of appraisal services (and that is only in the mortgage lending sphere) does not remotely come close to meeting the definition of an oligopoly as hundreds of users is not a small number.

 

[George Hatch]

There's no reason for us to bicker about it. The authoritarians haven't won yet, so for now this here's still America and everyone can still do their own thing.

The people who want to organize can go forth and be the Borg and the ones who don't will remain outside of the Collective.

 

[Eli]

I see many Borgs. For example, I see rubber stamp borgs that go along to get along. I see public trust borgs who don’t. I see many other borgs. This is borg City.

Fear not, there will be fewer borgs in the future.

As Marion noted and Cindy noted, there are already unions.

 

[Eli]

True, but that exemption applies when the union represent employees in collective bargaining and is not unlimited...It certainly would not apply to a union composed of independent business owners who tried to collude to set minimum fees that each business owner would accept.. Simply put, a bunch of business owners ,cannot form a cartel or some other cooperative group designed to fix prices, call it a union and be exempt from antitrust laws.

As Joan has noted, what a business considers an employee or independent contractor can be different from what the government considers an employee. In other words, a business may consider a worker an independent contractor, but the government may consider them an employee.

And, on a side note, much of the work unions have done is not pay related. It has been fighting harsh and dangerous working conditions and protection of rights.

 

[ucbruin]

If being part of the "Collective" means one is a borg....

Then we are all borgs because we are all part of the USA collective....

 

[djd09]

If fighting back means you are a borg, borg it is. If you keep doing what they tell you, then you are a stooge.

Fannie forms, fannie guidelines, fannie uad, fannie CU, fannie ratings. Who said oligopoly?

 

[J Grant]

An association is fine, and there are several such as the AI, NAIFA, numerous state coalitions, etc, although they obviously do not have the same power as the NAR or the bankers.. A union for appraisers is useless. By the way, despite the NAR, there are several examples of anti-trust cases brought against real estate brokerages for colluding to fix commissions.

A union could work but it is a pipe dream for appraisers, why even bring it up any longer. NAR has more power not just because of the greater number of RE agents and money to donate for lobbying, but because RE agents work collectively under one broker license ( typically). Such as a local Coldwell Banker office has one RE broker on record as owner or manager and the other RE agents or brokers are licensed under the one. So if the office has 30 licensed sales agents, they speak collectively under the guidance of the one broker. And as Coldwell Banker is a franchise, the top sets rules for the franchise chains across the nation. RE agents, though classed as independent contractors, are far less "independent " due to broker agency than appraisers. Which is not necessarily a good thing for appraisers. If every RE agent was turned loose from their affiliated brokers and the agents operated as lone wolves, as so many appraisers do, they would all be fighting each other and bickering over policies and lowering comissions to compete- their commissions are solid in the 5-6% range because they collectively act under the brokers.

Even that system may not be strong enough to survive the next decade as technology and Zillow, Trulia, Redfin etc encroach on the traditional turf of Brokers/agents. Redfin has just introduced a flat 1% commission sales service. Some sites match buyer and sellers, and some sites now have a division where investors will buy a house outright. The traditional RE broke/agent collectives holding the line at 6% commissions may be eroded in the coming years.

Appraisers are exploited by AMC's and anyone saying differently is being coy or in denial. Whether alternate desk work orders or appraiser attrition of more lenders ordering direct will bring any positive change remains to be seen. Clearly, all by their isolates selves, appraisers are not strong enough to withstand the AMC leverage about fees.

Staff appraisers working for AMC's allows these companies leverage. Staff appraisers sign on for a low salary and bonus per order which encourages them to take on volume to make any kind of a living wage. Too bad they don't hold out for a professional base salary . But they don't, and end up doing volume, which of course means less work for fee appraisers. And if a fee panel appraiser won't accept a low enough fee, they just re assign it to a staff appraiser. The few COW states where fees are higher from AMC is because they must be low on staff in such states and that forces them to pay going rates to outside vendors.

There is of course work outside of AMC's and a number of lenders assign direct, but the AMC's still , and perhaps will have for a long time, a large share of lender orders, which to date has put appraisers at a disadvantage in fee leverage as far as that side of the business.

 

[DTB]

The rub is appraisers are selling a service that (relatively) nobody really wants. Tough position to wield power from.