USPAP and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac about data usage

[J Grant]

Same thing. Whether an appraiser does or doesn't have better alternatives is immaterial to the statement as it is actually being made.

Independent fee appraisers don't sell the package and as a result they have no access to any of those assignments in those packages except via the AMCs which do sell the package.

AMC or no AMC, if there was a shortage of appraisers right now your fees would be a lot higher. If the number of appraisers significantly increases your fees will be lower. Same thing happens on RIMS; Terrell sometimes loses poultry farm assignments to the city boys from 200 miles away because they have nothing better to do with their time and the fee is more important to those lenders than the competency.

Same thing in my own book of work. I sometimes get outbid by my competition and my client chooses based on the price. Sometimes I am the low bid.

It ain't that deep.

If we had had your desired shortage of appraisers, the lenders would have complained in all the busier years that appraisers could not get the work done in a timely manner and sought other alternatives.

The relief for AMC's low fees was not the too late now belief that the field could have eliminated the appraisers who wanted to train since, at the time, there was no AMC's dominance.
For enough of a shortage to substantially impact fees from AMC's would have made appraisal a field unable to meet professional obligations., and we would have been replaced by methods or people that could deliver ( or the training time diluted to get more into the field. The stakeholders would never have tolerated teh imaginary shortage you retrospectively wish happened.

Rather than back blaming too many trainees for this debacle, the focus should be on the real problem, the sweetheart deal of a bundled fee that gives free-of-cost service to the lender and a tremendous market share advantage to AMC on the backs of appraisers. The lender should pay the AMC a cost for their service. That would remove the incentive for AMCs to fee shop the appraiser,, if their compensation came from charging a cost to the lender.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Terrell sometimes loses poultry farm assignments to the city boys from 200 miles away

Maybe, but I do not recall any poultry clients ever asking me what my fee was. Perhaps some did. AND some of the poultry specialists are operating in multiple states and doing so because of the quality of their work and the nature of their bank clients. I know one firm that is licensed in 7 states, and they charge about double what I do, perhaps more. Mark Lewis is in E. Texas and would likely be just as competent in N. LA, S. AR, or Mississippi. There is no chicken farm MLS and this is a hands-on, personal interview type business. You also spend time with the integrators who have a lot of data they share with appraisers, data that is provided by the flock managers and field men/women.

 

[J Grant]

Maybe, but I do not recall any poultry clients ever asking me what my fee was. Perhaps some did. AND some of the poultry specialists are operating in multiple states and doing so because of the quality of their work and the nature of their bank clients. I know one firm that is licensed in 7 states, and they charge about double what I do, perhaps more. Mark Lewis is in E. Texas and would likely be just as competent in N. LA, S. AR, or Mississippi. There is no chicken farm MLS and this is a hands-on, personal interview type business. You also spend time with the integrators who have a lot of data they share with appraisers, data that is provided by the flock managers and field men/women.

An appropriate fee bid for commercial or even high value complex residential has no comparison to the low fee shopping of reg res mortgage work by AMC;s, More for him for making the companion than for you to answer it.

 

[ucbruin]

Maybe, but I do not recall any poultry clients ever asking me what my fee was. Perhaps some did. AND some of the poultry specialists are operating in multiple states and doing so because of the quality of their work and the nature of their bank clients. I know one firm that is licensed in 7 states, and they charge about double what I do, perhaps more. Mark Lewis is in E. Texas and would likely be just as competent in N. LA, S. AR, or Mississippi. There is no chicken farm MLS and this is a hands-on, personal interview type business. You also spend time with the integrators who have a lot of data they share with appraisers, data that is provided by the flock managers and field men/women.

How do you confirm the data given to you....

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

How do you confirm the data given to you....

why would they lie when providing the flock averages?

 

[ucbruin]

Gotta confirm....

 

[George Hatch]

If we had had your desired shortage of appraisers, the lenders would have complained in all the busier years that appraisers could not get the work done in a timely manner and sought other alternatives.

The relief for AMC's low fees was not the too late now belief that the field could have eliminated the appraisers who wanted to train since, at the time, there was no AMC's dominance.
For enough of a shortage to substantially impact fees from AMC's would have made appraisal a field unable to meet professional obligations., and we would have been replaced by methods or people that could deliver ( or the training time diluted to get more into the field. The stakeholders would never have tolerated teh imaginary shortage you retrospectively wish happened.

Rather than back blaming too many trainees for this debacle, the focus should be on the real problem, the sweetheart deal of a bundled fee that gives free-of-cost service to the lender and a tremendous market share advantage to AMC on the backs of appraisers. The lender should pay the AMC a cost for their service. That would remove the incentive for AMCs to fee shop the appraiser,, if their compensation came from charging a cost to the lender.

Sometimes a lender's apathy is just apathy. That's if it isn't a direct F-U.

You can focus all you want on the lender's preference for buying the AMC package but it hasn't worked yet and after this many years it doesn't look like it's ever going to work.

 

[Tiffany Gibbons]

Sometimes a lender's apathy is just apathy. That's if it isn't a direct F-U.

You can focus all you want on the lender's preference for buying the AMC package but it hasn't worked yet and after this many years it doesn't look like it's ever going to work.

Some Lenders do not prefer that AMC "package" at all. I've had local Lenders that used to engage directly that were swallowed up by other large banks and mortgage companies ***** about it to me, personally, particularly when they want to convert to FHA or Conventional from VA when I've done a VA appraisal already but their new AMC has a laundry list of things they want for me to be approved for their "panel". One AMC wanted me to change software (to ACI, as if!), send my resume, samples, E & O insurance, etc. when the lender I've done many appraisals for is fine with my original appraisal (I would just have to go back out there for a new effective date and change verbiage throughout the report, put in FHA case # etc., submit with a trip fee to the Lender. But now I can't do that, and the lender gets whoever is already on the AMC's list to bid the lowest price and all that jazz. How does that help the Lender, the borrower, or anyone else? Is it faster? No. Cheaper? No. A hassle? Yes. A hustle? Yes.

 

[George Hatch]

I've gain and lost many clients over the years via mergers and acquisitions, too. Other than by personal referral, that's the 2nd most common way I've picked up new clients.

And you're 110% right, some residential lenders don't do AMCs. As for the scenario you described, the lender apparently thought not having to handle the assignment individually was worth it to them. Seems like a waste to me, too; but then again the clerks making these calls usually only have enough power to say "no", not enough power to say "yes".


One of the things the banking regulators are looking for in their examinations is how closely the lender is adhering to their internal appraisal policies. That one isn't even about the specifics of those policies, just the consistency and continuity of its application.

 

[Tiffany Gibbons]

I've gain and lost many clients over the years via mergers and acquisitions, too. Other than by personal referral, that's the 2nd most common way I've picked up new clients.

And you're 110% right, some residential lenders don't do AMCs. As for the scenario you described, the lender apparently thought not having to handle the assignment individually was worth it to them. Seems like a waste to me, too; but then again the clerks making these calls usually only have enough power to say "no", not enough power to say "yes".


One of the things the banking regulators are looking for in their examinations is how closely the lender is adhering to their internal appraisal policies. That one isn't even about the specifics of those policies, just the consistency and continuity of its application.

Well, it was a very recent changeover/takeover. I think the loan officer was more in charge before.
The mergers and acquisitions line always make me think of Christian Bale in American Psycho, "I'm in murders and executions", Probably not far off. Seems to be the corporate Patrick Bateman types running the lending game anyhow. They are a little more narcissistic, lol