Virgina REAB and Portal Petition

[Workbox]

The mark of the beast.

Add the Scarlet Letters and it is now a match made in heaven......maybe.

 

[TJSum]

They aren't changing the document, they are extracting the data from it and compiling it in a different format.

You do the same thing.

(No, I don't!)

(Yes, you do.)

(Nuh uh!)

(Uh huh!)

Just condensing the next 10 pages so as to save bandwidth.

(What's bandwidth?)

(Read a book.)

If I as the appraiser do it, and then affix my signature, fine. But if they are compiling the data and placing it on a new summary sheet form and then applying my signature on something I have never seen, that is Fraud. m2:

We have been reassured several hundred times on this thread that ALL conversions and changes take place by the originating appraiser prior to sending the report to the portal. Which is it ?

 

[William K]

I believe the next definition of a word in USPAP will be COPY.

I can see the arguments now. What does COPY mean?

like or similar to.?
imitation?
exact duplicate?
identical duplicate?
duplicate?
replication?
reproduction?

 

[Carnivore]

We have been reassured several hundred times on this thread that ALL conversions and changes take place by the originating appraiser prior to sending the report to the portal. Which is it ?

TJ,

I do believe you have found the correct rock to look under!

 

[Couch Potato]

If I as the appraiser do it, and then affix my signature, fine. But if they are compiling the data and placing it on a new summary sheet form and then applying my signature on something I have never seen, that is Fraud. m2:

We have been reassured several hundred times on this thread that ALL conversions and changes take place by the originating appraiser prior to sending the report to the portal. Which is it ?

The debate is over what is being converted and changed, and subsequently what constitutes a conversion or change. Is the appraisal report the image that appears on your computer screen or is it the data the computer uses to produce that image? Which is it that is transmitted to a client? If a client uses a monochrome monitor to view the appraisal report you prepared utilizing color, have they altered the appraisal report?

My position is the appraisal reports I send consist of a data file. If the client wants to view it with software that merely shows them the reconciled opinion of value, that is their business. It does not change what is in my report.

 

[Ken B]

If I as the appraiser do it, and then affix my signature, fine. But if they are compiling the data and placing it on a new summary sheet form and then applying my signature on something I have never seen, that is Fraud. m2:

We have been reassured several hundred times on this thread that ALL conversions and changes take place by the originating appraiser prior to sending the report to the portal. Which is it ?

Which is what? You only gave one option of what you had been informed.

I will agree with you that if data is extracted from one document and placed in another, it would be fraudulent to attach the original document's signature to the compiled document. I don't think anyone suggested that such an event was occurring.

What some have been stating, and others have been refuting, is that the AIReady conversion process is initiated by the originating appraiser and authorized for delivery to the client or other party so authorized by the client. What the receiving party does with the data contained within the original document is their business, so long as that data is not changed and the changed data represented as the data provided by the originating appraiser.

Presentation of the data may be changed when it is compiled into a different format, but that does not mean that the data changes.

And we off to the races once again....

 

[Fred]

How can they legally "re-arrange" data when someone's signature is on the original creation. Isn't that what they call fraud

They call it fraud on this forum. In law, though, about another six things would have to happen before it would be fraud.

Presentation of the data may be changed when it is compiled into a different format, but that does not mean that the data changes.

And we off to the races once again....

Kenneth,
I believe he already posted that to him changing format is the same as changing substantive content.

 

[DWiley]

Conversion into AIReady format does happen on the appraiser's computer, prior to submission through AP. Anyone who has actually used AiReady can verify that with their own eyes. The client gets the entire report. The client is then free to look at the entire report, or to view only parts of it.

Using a viewer that shows only part of the report is no different than photocopying and looking at a part of the report. The original appraisal report is not modified.

An appraiser once showed me a report they claimed had been changed. What had actually happened was that someone had taken a screen shot of a viewer that showed only part of the report.

Like others, I look forward to hearing some evidence as well. If nothing else, I want to see how it will be twisted to be consistent with the predetermined views some have established. It should be entertaining. m2:

 

[TJSum]

Which is what? You only gave one option of what you had been informed.

I will agree with you that if data is extracted from one document and placed in another, it would be fraudulent to attach the original document's signature to the compiled document. I don't think anyone suggested that such an event was occurring.

What some have been stating, and others have been refuting, is that the AIReady conversion process is initiated by the originating appraiser and authorized for delivery to the client or other party so authorized by the client. What the receiving party does with the data contained within the original document is their business, so long as that data is not changed and the changed data represented as the data provided by the originating appraiser.

Presentation of the data may be changed when it is compiled into a different format, but that does not mean that the data changes.

And we off to the races once again....

We are in agreement for the most part, I will repaste the post I was responding to and the questions i had regarding it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conservative in Virginia
I have not had the time to read this entire thread.. have not been on AF in a week or so... tied up with my two old horses.. one went blind in one eye.. one is failing fast with a neurological disease known as EPM - life kinda sucks now...

ANYWAY - I was referred an order from PVC Murcor... did the report (our office had accepted a $350 fee) so ok.... I am preparing to submit and they want it to come thru portal. (NOTE - I have very little experience working with AMC's and virtually no experience with these AI ready portals - 100% of my work goes out email PDF the old fashioned way.)

I called the --what do you call it... phone chimp --- and was VERY NICE... told him my concerns and what I had 'heard'.... that I preferred to send it email PDF.. ASKED him WHY... WHY do they want it thru the portal?

He says... the lenders want it this way... HE says the problem most appraisers have is not filling out the boxes and the software checks it... he says the software 'mish mashes' (my word for lack of better) all the data into a computer generated sheet and that is ALL the lenders want to see.. they do not want to see a URAR. HE says most of the lenders want it this way now and before long ALL of them will.

I said what about deferred maintenance ... comments.. pictures... He then went into all the AI ready 'extras'. I commented that the entire process has been dehumanized!.... He agreed but stated with the sheer numbers of appraisals..BPO's etc...'rearranged' data was the WAY of the future - kinda like looking at a computer generated credit score to evaluate one's creditworthiness.

I did relay my concerns that there is ALOT OF TALK that data is changed.. he insisted it was not ..just rearranged and reformated.............I emailed my report PDF - he did not force my hand to portalize it. (I apologize if I used unprofessional words or adjectives here - again.. I have NEVER submitted thru these portals!)

I will be there on the 23rd... Hope to have the opportunity to meet you Pam...




And my questions were...

I find it way too hard to believe any lender will do a loan without the full URAR appraisal at least for their file records. I would like to hear from others on this claim.

If it is true the million dollar question is this. Are they making loans with these computerized summary sheets without any signatures on them or even worse are they applying the appraisers signature to a computer generated form that we have never seen ???

 

[George Hatch]

Until someone shows me that the company is either changing (not rearranging) content or is providing tools to enable their clients to change content I just can't get excited about this issue.

If some third party has found a way to hack my reports after the fact I'm annoyed about that but don't really consider it my problem so long as I can prove what I sent out. We've had copier machines and Photoshop and pdf crackers out there for a long time now.

I haven't used AppraisalPort in a couple years but back then I could see what I was sending out. When I saw certain elements of my formats didn't convert cleanly into their version I just reworked my formats to fit. After that I have no reason to be concerned that my clients were getting something different than what I was sending out.

A lender could always hire a clerk to manually re-key the information in an appraisal report into a different format. I really don't see the difference in automating that function. Affixing my signature to other documents is where I'd draw the line, but someone would have to show me these companies are doing that before I'd accuse them of it.

If the primary objection is datamining then I consider that a moot issue, too; at least from a practical standpoint. When push comes to shove if a lender wants to datamine appraisal reports, the most they would have to do is tell (not ask) appraisers that they're going to do it and give us a take-it-or-leave-it ultimatum.

Like it or not, what are our options at that point? Not take the assignment at that fee? Get real - in this market there are enough appraisers out there that will give that right away in exchange for a paying assignment that the lenders would never miss the holdouts.

The one thing I wish these companies would do is to give me an opportunity to print out these other summaries and formats so I could keep them in my workfile. I don't think it's essential for my workfile, but it would increase my comfort level in dealing with them.