Waivers, huh?

[George Hatch]

Because WAIVER-based financing is NOT DISCLOSED the way other financing is, we can notably do a statistical or other analysis of it.​

So you are incapable of personally verifying the financing with the broker of a sale with a low LTV? Which I'm not sure why you'd even bother with if the price fits in with the other high-LTV sales. I'm with you on the disclosure aspect in the listings. More information is always better than less information. But that's actually an MLS issue, not a lender issue.

As for waiver based loans having an effect on the prices in the market, that's really a stretch in reasoning. In addition to still using requiring appraisals for a certain percentage of the low LTV purchases the GSEs are apparently still requiring appraisals for everything over 80% LTVs of their AVM values.

 

[Dublin ohio]

Because WAIVER-based financing is NOT DISCLOSED the way other financing is, we can notably do a statistical or other analysis of it.

What about all of those sales where the borrower brought cash to the table to make up the difference between the appraised value and sale price. Is that "disclosed". You can only confirm that if you can confirm that through one of the parties involved.

The waivers should be on the SAME playing field as another financing - disclosed on the tax record and on MLS listing for all to see - WHY NOT ?? Why do you think they should be the reception??

An agent can get days to get back to us on a question like that, and some never bother answering.

 

[djd09]

So you are incapable of personally verifying the financing with the broker of a sale with a low LTV?

do they? nope just the zillow zestimate

 

[George Hatch]

Speaking of the GSEs AVM, the quality of the data they have access to greatly exceeds the amount of info in the data used by every commercial AVM. They have access to actual appraisals which have been performed at one time or another on most of those properties. Often including the subject AND some or all of the comparable sales. Sometimes including the appraisals actually used for those specific transactions, other times being limited to prior appraisals.

If a property has 1 or 2 prior sales in their sales history and 2 or 3 or 5 previous refis then the GSEs most likely have at least one prior appraisal on file for that subject. So they're not 100% dependent upon an MLS entry or public records entry as is the case for the commercial AVMs. The weak spot in all AVMs is their use of unverified property attributes; it always has been. The GSE-archived appraisals solve that problem for them insofar as the properties that have already been through their pipeline in the past. That won't be all the properties that get used for comps but it will be most of them.

So the comparison here isn't between what a 1004 appraiser knows about a property vs what Zillow or Corelogic knows. The comparison is (at least potentially) between everything the other AVMs have access to + everything the GSE has previously extracted from the appraisers on that subject and on most or all of the comparables used in the appraisal.,

 

[J Grant]

i dont see you whining about overvalued properties now...

I dislike over valued properties now , doh

 

[J Grant]

Speaking of the GSEs AVM, the quality of the data they have access to greatly exceeds the amount of info in the data used by every commercial AVM. They have access to actual appraisals which have been performed at one time or another on most of those properties. Often including the subject AND some or all of the comparable sales. Sometimes including the appraisals actually used for those specific transactions, other times being limited to prior appraisals.

If a property has 1 or 2 prior sales in their sales history and 2 or 3 or 5 previous refis then the GSEs most likely have at least one prior appraisal on file for that subject. So they're not 100% dependent upon an MLS entry or public records entry as is the case for the commercial AVMs. The weak spot in all AVMs is their use of unverified property attributes; it always has been. The GSE-archived appraisals solve that problem for them insofar as the properties that have already been through their pipeline in the past. That won't be all the properties that get used for comps but it will be most of them.

So the comparison here isn't between what a 1004 appraiser knows about a property vs what Zillow or Corelogic knows. The comparison is (at least potentially) between everything the other AVMs have access to + everything the GSE has previously extracted from the appraisers on that subject and on most or all of the comparables used in the appraisal.,

Since waivers are not disclosed then the AVM's can't factor them in if need be

 

[George Hatch]

Since waivers are not disclosed then the AVM's can't factor them in if need be​

I'm pretty sure that if you had put 30 seconds of thought into that one you would have realized how illogical it is.

There can be little doubt the GSEs know exactly which loans they've accepted with waivers. And that they have already been comparing the loans w/waivers vs the cash sales vs the loans w/appraisals. That they are continuing on with their usage of these could be argued as indicative of their conclusions of those comparisons.

 

[djd09]

then they said price creep...

 

[J Grant]

Because WAIVER-based financing is NOT DISCLOSED the way other financing is, we can notably do a statistical or other analysis of it.​

So you are incapable of personally verifying the financing with the broker of a sale with a low LTV? Which I'm not sure why you'd even bother with if the price fits in with the other high-LTV sales. I'm with you on the disclosure aspect in the listings. More information is always better than less information. But that's actually an MLS issue, not a lender issue.

As for waiver based loans having an effect on the prices in the market, that's really a stretch in reasoning. In addition to still using requiring appraisals for a certain percentage of the low LTV purchases the GSEs are apparently still requiring appraisals for everything over 80% LTVs of their AVM values.

It is not about ME - it is that NOBODY running a statistical program or analysis, can see when a waiver was used.

I already said it and you ignored it - I have no reason to ask f a waivers is used, but the non disclosure of them means there is no way for others to see if they affect prices -who run statistics etc

 

[djd09]

View attachment 85801

then they said price creep...

go back 30 months...