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We Need House Wind Turbines

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I would prefer the government stay out of everything.
As would I! My point is that the government is currently subsidizing these huge expensive centralized top down solutions. These so-called solutions do nothing but put more money into the hands of the corporations at the expense of the man on the street, while doing nothing to actually reduce the demand on the grid. That is why I said "If they were serious" because they aren't, they are just using "green technologies" as another form of corporate welfare.
 
We put in a radiant barrier and dropped our electric bill 40% in summer, in one month, only change. We installed an additional 8-10" of blown cellulose insulation ($500 for a 2200 SF home). Temps dropped big time around here, our home would remain at about 72 degrees with minimal cycling of the HVAC system, even with single pane windows. Looked at the cost to install new windows (several thousand) and figure the return is not worth it.
 
People dont understand how the electrical supply system works so the are easily fooled by solutions like solar and wind.

Here's how it goes.

Fundamental to the equation is that we dont have any effective way of storing a significant amount of electricity. Its not like water where you can pump a bunch into a reservoir or tower and have a supply on hand that can be ready for immediate delivery without the need to pump it or treat it.

When you flip a light switch you make an immediate demand on the grid that must be answered by some small amount of additional production from a generator at the other end of the wire. Effectively what this means is that you must have a layered system of energy producers.

Nuclear power plants and hydro dams produce huge amounts of power, but they cannot be throttled up or down every time you flip on a switch. So we depend on these kinds of resources for the baseline power demand that's always there, day or night.

Things like coal fired plants still cant throttle up and down that quickly, but can easily deal with changes like the day-night variation in power demand. So we depend on them for that middle strata of variable, but somewhat predictable, demand.

The small-sale demand, like you flipping a switch is handled mostly by gas turbine plants; these are effectively a jet engine in a box that is throttled up and down to generate exactly the right amount of power that the grid is demanding at that moment.

Now think about where solar and wind fit into this equation. Here you have a generator that comes on and off line unpredictably. One second the turbine is supplying the house's load that its attached to, plus it sending some supply up the line, the next second the wind dies, that supply it was generating gets subtracted from the grid, and the load that the house was pulling is suddenly expected to be delivered from the grid. Effectively what you're doing is forcing the grid to rely even more on the least efficient, least clean, most expensive sources of power because the contribution of the wind turbines is so fickle. Solar is a little bit better because the weather is somewhat predictable, but it has some of the same flaws.

If you want to charge your car you should be pro nuke or hydro. Since most of that charging would happen at night, that load could easily be added to the baseline amount so the power generated would actually be clean. And you would really be beating the oil companies because you would not be doing it with hydrocarbons.
Bad example because pumping water into a reservoir just happens to be the most cost effective way to store large amounts of electricity. Maybe you are not familiar with pumped-storage facilities. I remember Georgia Power using the Wallace Dam to replace quite a number of gas turbine plants about thirty years ago.
 
This happens alot (for you, TC)....
 

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Restrain, do you happen to remember the name of that radiant barrier you used? Did you install it yourself?

I've heard of some scams regarding radiant barriers and I would prefer to go with something that has a proven track record...not some salesman's BS statistics pitch.

I have started looking at renting one of the blow in machines from Home Depot and blowing in some additional stuff.

Thanks



We put in a radiant barrier and dropped our electric bill 40% in summer, in one month, only change. We installed an additional 8-10" of blown cellulose insulation ($500 for a 2200 SF home). Temps dropped big time around here, our home would remain at about 72 degrees with minimal cycling of the HVAC system, even with single pane windows. Looked at the cost to install new windows (several thousand) and figure the return is not worth it.
 
We have a local company around her that's tied up with Home Depot that does a good job with the spray material. I've seen the stuff demonstrated at our local appraisers meeting, and it really works. They took a shingle with half covered with the paint and hit it with high heat. Heat skyrocketed on the unpainted side, barely twitched the thermometer. What we did was have new decking installed when our roof was replaced (old wood shingles with comp on top), and it had the stuff that looks like aluminum foil on it. It cut the temp in the attic some 40-60 degrees in the summer. But the stuff that looks like aluminum paint works quite well, but it has to be applied on a solid decking, not the underside of a wood shingle roof. Check with Home Depot as they probably have the stuff or a contractor that can do it. Now, given the problems with renting the airless sprayer, crawling through the attic, etc, paying someone to do it would be good. For that matter, some of their deals that they've offered included insulation as well, so check your big-box retailers.

As to the insulation, it cost us $350 for the insulation at Lowes (bought $400, returned $50 worth), got the blower for one day free. Paid a handyman to actually be in the attic and I filled the hopper. 2-person job, but by using cellulose, non-hazardous other than dust. Took about 3 hours to do, less than $500 total. We got that back in 3 months this winter.
 
LEDs for lighting.
A friend's son is an electrical engineer who designs electrical systems for airports. Said everyone wants the LEDs for Airports. He tells them the cost pay out is about 30 to 40 years...longer than the system life. They say, "I'd don't care. We have to be "green"..." Go figure.

Nice...really nice pix Vette... I wonder how many people realize they are watching about $1 million go up in smoke on a 1 meg generator....and propeller blades are not made of steel...If I burned that much plastic (made from hydrocarbon no less) I'd go to jail...
 
A friend's son is an electrical engineer who designs electrical systems for airports. Said everyone wants the LEDs for Airports. He tells them the cost pay out is about 30 to 40 years...longer than the system life. They say, "I'd don't care. We have to be "green"..." Go figure.

Nice...really nice pix Vette... I wonder how many people realize they are watching about $1 million go up in smoke on a 1 meg generator....and propeller blades are not made of steel...If I burned that much plastic (made from hydrocarbon no less) I'd go to jail...
I am not an electrician but I believe the formula is WAV or Watts=ampsXvolts. A 40 watt equivalent LED uses 9 watts. A typical car battery has 45 ampsX12 volts = 540 watts or enough to power one 40 watt equivalent LED for about 60 hours continous use. The typical 40 watt incandescent bulb would be powered for less 14 hours
 
Nice...really nice pix Vette... I wonder how many people realize they are watching about $1 million go up in smoke on a 1 meg generator....and propeller blades are not made of steel...If I burned that much plastic (made from hydrocarbon no less) I'd go to jail...

Somebody sent me an email with 15 photos like that.

In my previous career, I sold power generating systems...diesel and natural gas, both reciprocating and turbine. Cogeneration can have extremely short paybacks but down here in Florida, the largest electric company FPL (also known as Florida Plunder & Loot) and their competitors continue to have the Public Service Commission in their back pockets. They have managed to thwart most all attempts for cogeneration systems in Florida. With the abundance of natural gas in both the US and Canada, which would provide for extremely low prices if only limited pipeline capabilities were not the issue, gas-fired cogeneration makes perfect sense. Electric utilites do not want any more competition, especially from consumers.
 
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Bad example because pumping water into a reservoir just happens to be the most cost effective way to store large amounts of electricity. Maybe you are not familiar with pumped-storage facilities. I remember Georgia Power using the Wallace Dam to replace quite a number of gas turbine plants about thirty years ago.

You can store it sure, but there's significant conversion losses, and it still does not solve the problem with baseline vs. peak demand. You still have to have a hydodam providing baseline production and a turbine providing the instant-on supply.

If you follow the OPs goal to beat the oil companies, you need to focus on minimizing dependance on the hydrocarbon burning. Rather than installing a windmill, you'd be far better off, as an example, designing an electric car charger that could be triggered by the power company to run during demand lulls so that the nuke and hydro suppliers could maintain higher overall production levels while minimizing the need for the fast response generators.
 
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