We're Back To The Beginning

[George Hatch]

Amazing to think about it isn't it?

I really don't care what the rules are. I just want them to be on a level playing field, and I will adapt; no problem at all.

However. When the entire country goes through a melt down. Twice. There is something wrong. And when the watch dogs of the business (appraisers) are being attacked from all sides, there is something dreadfully wrong.

Isn't this what happened in the 80's with the S&L crisis? Crisis. Has a certain tone to it, doesn't it? Great Recession doesn't sound quite so alarming. I wonder what the next melt down will be called? Market Correction? That has an even BETTER tone to it.

There is so much stench in the banking business - and HAS BEEN since the 80's - we might be better just starting over from scratch. This time either do it right, or let it run totally free, and we can all party day and night till we burn this country to the ground. Next time it may get to that. Nero fiddled while Rome burned, right? The expression has a double meaning: Not only did Nero play music while his people suffered, but he was an ineffectual leader in a time of crisis. I guess we never learn. Here we are back at the BEGINNING! Oh, I said that - that is the thread title - sorry, forgot.

The poor poor grandchildren. Wait till they find out how crooked and stupid we have been over the past FORTY some years. We've already robbed them of a one person income household, and taken away pensions. Now they're on their own to make it with two incomes, and save for themselves for retirement. What else can we take away to line the pockets of bankers and politicians? Oh hell yes - let's inflate housing so they all have to live with Mom and Dad till they have a solid career, somewhere around 30-40 years old. We've done that too. When it's time to retire, we all hope we can sock the young generation into paying $800,000 for a home we paid $40,000 for - then we can sit back and coast...

And, And. And. And you say you see why I'm unhappy George? It goes several levels deeper than that. Let's call things the way they are. There's a LOT of unhappiness to go around. But nice try to goad me into a shallow superficial argument. We've been there before. There is nothing simple, nor pleasant, about this. How about we call it, for a moment, our legacy from our generation that we leave behind? Is that something to be proud of? If we don't address it head on, we are not part of the solution: we are part of the problem. Justify and/or excuse it any way you want to - it is what it is.

I feel a book developing. Too many "fine citizens" of this country don't know, and don't care, about how we've been misled and lied to so many times. And things get worse and worse...

The Revolution will be live-streamed on Youtube.

Meanwhile IRL the extent of our control as appraisers over the actions of the lenders or the government or society at large is too small to measure. Our control of the situation is limited to how we choose to act as individuals and as a profession, so that's where I choose to concentrate.

 

[ucbruin]

You believe all this started with the baby boomers???
Get a grip...
Old blame the young forgetting they were once young....
And young blame the old until they become old.....


https://proto-knowledge.blogspot.com/2010/11/what-is-wrong-with-young-people-today.html?m=1

 

[bnmappraisal]

The latter, what lenders do you know specifically that are asking for appraiser "bids" for residential regular/ non complex work?

None of my current direct work steady clients have gone this route.

But about 2 - 3 weeks ago, I had a one off lender (I tried to find the name, but Merc didn't have it anymore) send a bid request through Mercury Network. I didn't recognize the lender, but I do recall it having "bank" in the name. The request was gone within 10 mins. I didn't even bother looking up the property since (thankfully) I was busy with other work.

Personally I think that was just a "one off" that they had in the area. Oh well

... but I don't think most direct lenders send out bids in the RES world ... at this time

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

If fee bidding does expand out of AMC work to direct lender work,

Must be a regional thing, as our largest regionals use RIMS to bid all in house appraisals. AMCs are used by their mortgage arm. And the largest uses a combination staff and AMC. Staff often does evaluations and appraisals and directs bids via RIMS to their vendor lists. Secondary market goes thru an AMC. The staff also maintains the appraiser vendors lists, E & O, licenses etc.on the vendor list. They have used this since about 2012. The result for me was no easy jobs, fewer bids and depressed bids on the most complex properties that their staff didn't want to do. My last two projects were a new home on a small site which also held a small industrial shop building kitchen cabinets. The last was a commercial dog kennel and grooming parlor also new construction. That one was to be owner constructed and no bids provided, only a sketch and a materials list.

PS one bank I did 1 job for, actually has its own proprietary bid portal and it sucked horribly. I said, "no more"...

 

[George Hatch]

I've got a couple clients using their own internal portals - but they definitely are bidding their assignments out. It's not always the lowest fee that gets the work, though; sometimes it's whomever can get to it the quickest and which appraisers are most likely to hit all the high points of the client's appraisal policy without having to go through revisions.

I've got a few other clients who only use me, and several others with really short approval lists; almost all with less than 10 heads.

 

[bnmappraisal]

several others with really short approval lists; almost all with less than 10 heads.

These are usually great clients! I like being on these lists (I have 2-3 myself)

 

[J Grant]

A bank bidding a larger $ scale order on RIMS is its own universe and not comparable to residential lending- in a RIMS bid what appraiser charges is what borrower is charged, correct? Whereas when AMC's ask for "bids" for low end res jobs. , where borrower has already paid a set fee, the purpose is to line the AMC pocket with additional profit

I have no problem if a bank BTW asks for a bid on a complex order because its not a profit ( kickback lol) to bank, they are shopping to get it reasonably fulfilled and borrower is charged what the appraiser charges, - as bnmappraisal confirms, to date banks an direct lenders are not "fee biddng" res regular work where borrowers pay a standard rate in an area . Banks are legally prohibited to fee split with themselves thus have no incentive to do so. There are a smaller segment of better AMCs who also do not fee fish each order since they work on a cost plus basis from their lenders. The other AMC;s though have started fee bidding . But let's be clear they are the only ones doing it and they are not doing it because of "efficiency" They are doing it to make $ off appraisers. s )

The distopian future GHatch speaks of res lending with every order bid out on an ebay like platform? He knows lenders are not allowed to fee split so why does he put that out there? It would be inefficient for lenders to take the time on each and every regular res order to pause and find a cheaper rate for title, appraisal, credit for a borrower. It's efficient for them to charge set rates in an area and that is why they do it. Those rates btw are C and R because normal C and R are not subject to the pay for play pressure AMC;s put on fees.

Efficiency is not the same thing as a kickback. An AMC bidding out res orders to vendors to find the cheapest, where borrower has already paid a set $ amount to lender are only about the AMC keeping more money from a vendor, is a throwback to the payola of DJ scandal of pay for play... vendors, I am dangling this order, the one who charges me the least means I profit more-so its pay for play time-, pay me more $ via your low fee and you get the order.

There is a reason why the rest of the professional world is not bidding professional services over the internet, even though it is possible to do it. They they know better then to participate in a scheme that would disenfranchise their own income. Which is the reason it has not spread out of AMC model

For example, take Angie's List, a popular home improvement recommended contractor site...a customer can compare reviews or ratings and pick out a few contractors. At that point, a customer can get in touch with the contractors ask for quotes from them- but that is nt the same *** a customer does not putting up their pending project up for auction online to watch bids come in to get the lowest one.

Auctions exist online and elsewhere to get the highest price for a product, not a lowest bid for a professional service.

 

[J Grant]

I've got a couple clients using their own internal portals - but they definitely are bidding their assignments out. It's not always the lowest fee that gets the work, though; sometimes it's whomever can get to it the quickest and which appraisers are most likely to hit all the high points of the client's appraisal policy without having to go through revisions.

I've got a few other clients who only use me, and several others with really short approval lists; almost all with less than 10 heads.

That's for higher $ commercial work, correct?

It would be helpful to differentiate such a portal so if res appraisers see it they do not assume it is anything like what an AMC does.

I have no problem btw bidding out for a high $ complex because that is a reasonable request, but an AMC fee fishing each and every low end order is not reasonable ( if one wants to make more than min wage that is ). I don't mind listing my C and R fee on a lender portal so they can see if their work is covered on it, but that is not the same as AMC low fee fishing either.

Is the interal portal you describe for commercial work or larger scale res work for those clients?