We're Back To The Beginning

[Overimprovement]

I echo the sentiment that in my opinion, AMCs are not the problem. Why does no appraiser seem to understand the basic mechanics of supply and demand? Didn't we all take an economics course as part of our required 4 years of college (now 2 or 0, but that is another thread)?
The ONLY reason the AMCs can get these requests gobbled up so fast is an oversupply of appraisers in that market .I've been to California, I get it, beautiful place to live. Too many appraisers though. Too many far left socialists too.

No appraiser was/is complaining in the COW states where C&R was approaching $1000 in some instances. Again--that is supply and demand.

Supply/demand is what always HAS and always WILL drive the price appraisers can expect to get for any assignment. Especially the now commoditized 1004 on your local area's typical SFR. The folks getting more than C&R? Ask them how they do it, though I doubt they will share many secrets. In my experience those with money trees in the back yard do not give away the seeds for free.

I would rather be pushed on turn time than values. I honestly have not felt much pressure in my market to hit sales price. So maybe my vantage point is a little different than others. Sure, they don't like when I don't, and its an extra hoop or two, but that is part of my job. I would not trade today's AMC structure for the good ol days of extreme 'estimated values' on every faxed in order. Don't even bother turning the report in if you don't hit it. Ahh, the good ol days!

Again though, not saying at all that today's structure is the best. But that is also why half my clients are direct lenders, and I am always trying to move that needle, but it is admittedly hard in my market, having a small # of overall lenders.

 

[RCA]

yep, that's what AMCs are - agents of the lender. ask marion and she can post up lots of things about that topic.



ahhh, another nostalgic look back the the old days where people only remember the good parts. how about "this deal didn't close so i will get you on the next one" or "just comp this out for me real quick" or "no, you don't get paid until the deal closes and i am paid, so wait up to a couple months for your fee". ya, the good old days...



there are literally thousands of AMCs across the nation on top of the direct engagement lenders. if you can't find clients then you must be doing something wrong.



supply and demand. there is a glut of appraisers in california, everyone knows that, just like florida. if others in your market are accepting orders at $350 then that is what your market will bear for those clients. don't agree? great! get different clients or start appraising things that others don't and build yourself a niche. better yet move away from residential lending assignments all together and end all your problems!



ahhh, so now it's not the fault of AMCs but the president, who has been in office for 2 years. i am not a political person but maybe i should become one so i can blame any problems i experience on a political party or figure. that's much easier to do that actually solve the problem.

I always got paid up front. ALWAYS. The insurance companies hated this and gave me a really bad time. Attorneys not that much of a problem. As for the other, it wasn't that much of a problem .... Like I said, if they didn't like value, mostly I just didn't get any more assignments from them. But, others would come along. Apparently they didn't keep a central directory of obstinate, hard headed appraisers back then. Of course now you also have Yelp and the like. So, there is no returning to the "good old days".

 

[J Grant]

Ove improvement It s not only supply and demand, since the same regional area with the same # of appraisers ( supply) sees payment of 2 different fee levels with same work, with direct order lenders paying higher and AMC;s paying lower.

If half your work is direct lender I hope they pay you more than the AMC's do? That's the way it is in my area .

Clearly AMC's are a big factor in fee depression. It is true that AMC will exploit an over supply of appraisers because doing so returns higher profit to them since unlike most businesses, AMC' s get paid from splitting a fee off a vendor, rather than charging their lender customer ( lender ) for service they provide the way other businesses do. Whereas lenders ordering direct in an order of over supply will not use it to pressure down fees , but uses it as a larger pool of appraisers to choose the more competent and experienced from

Any appraiser who does not understand that AMC's and the way they are compensated is a major cause, and naively attributes the problem only to supply and demand lacks analysis skills To assume other appraisers do not understand supply and demand is ludicrous.

BTW the word socialism is tossed around the board like a bad salad and misused 99% of the time.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

We had a local appraiser retire in June. No problem with AMCs...just call someone from 80 miles away. They are slow down in Ft. Smith...nevah mind they mostly don't access our MLS.

 

[J Grant]

I echo the sentiment that in my opinion, AMCs are not the problem. Why does no appraiser seem to understand the basic mechanics of supply and demand? Didn't we all take an economics course as part of our required 4 years of college (now 2 or 0, but that is another thread)?
The ONLY reason the AMCs can get these requests gobbled up so fast is an oversupply of appraisers in that market .I've been to California, I get it, beautiful place to live. Too many appraisers though. Too many far left socialists too.

No appraiser was/is complaining in the COW states where C&R was approaching $1000 in some instances. Again--that is supply and demand.

Supply/demand is what always HAS and always WILL drive the price appraisers can expect to get for any assignment. Especially the now commoditized 1004 on your local area's typical SFR. The folks getting more than C&R? Ask them how they do it, though I doubt they will share many secrets. In my experience those with money trees in the back yard do not give away the seeds for free.

I would rather be pushed on turn time than values. I honestly have not felt much pressure in my market to hit sales price. So maybe my vantage point is a little different than others. Sure, they don't like when I don't, and its an extra hoop or two, but that is part of my job. I would not trade today's AMC structure for the good ol days of extreme 'estimated values' on every faxed in order. Don't even bother turning the report in if you don't hit it. Ahh, the good ol days!

Again though, not saying at all that today's structure is the best. But that is also why half my clients are direct lenders, and I am always trying to move that needle, but it is admittedly hard in my market, having a small # of overall lenders.

So you could not stand up to mortgage brokers back in the day and now think getting half the fee is better ? as far as the 3 COW states, in 10 years only 3 low population states have been able to get higher fees paid by AMC;s due to an under supply of appraisers..in those states.

d it should not take an under supply to leverage fee parity, and most processions have a degree of over supply yet don't face the same fee pressure down as AMC model does ( reasons explained numerous times on teh board but you seem not to have absorbed .)

In the COW states, an under supply of appraisers led to turn time delays which AMC;s and lenders grabbed as the bogey man to promote the myth of a looming appraiser shortage problem , successfully to get trainee time reduced and drop the college and AA degree. for res license Before you use the COW states as the shining example of the triumph of C and R, note the lenders and AMC;s used them to fear monger to get their favorable legislation agenda passed.

 

[Overimprovement]

So you could not stand up to mortgage brokers back in the day and now think getting half the fee is better ? as far as the 3 COW states, in 10 years only 3 low population states have been able to get higher fees paid by AMC;s due to an under supply of appraisers..in those states.

My bold--this statement shows you may be one of the ones who does not understand the dynamics of supply and demand. It was/is NOT an under supply of appraisers there, it was/is the over demand of appraisals. BIG difference. Before the fees took off, C&R was about what it was around the country, correct? Did the # of appraisers JUST in those states suddenly sharply decrease? Of course not. What changed is the demand for appraisals. Every market is different, as is every state, and who knows where the next boom/bust will be, but again, the AMCs in those states had to buckle to the supply/demand curve just like anyone else.


And as for fees, for me personally, I actually get paid better by the AMCs I work for. Possibly its because the local appraisers around here have been smart enough to figure out that more hoops requires more $$. I am willing to knock $50 off my fee for a direct lender whose assignment will be very local, doesn't require the 1004MC form, doesn't require 2 active listings, and only has revisions when I goof up. I won't do an AMC request for the same fee though. My $/HOUR of work for direct and AMC work is very similar. I make that choice, not the AMC. If enough appraisers in each market did that, perhaps the supply curve would move up some and price would increase.

And I don't recall saying that I "could not stand up" to the 'estimated value' pressure. Quite a big inference on your part.
I in fact didn't 'give in', which by the way is why I got OUT of appraising for a while 15 years ago, because the well dried up in my small local market when I did 'stand up', while many others did not.

 

[J Grant]

your market is different than mine here at least a segment of lenders pay far more and AMC;s ..but of course complex pays better for both. A shame there are appraisers who lower their fees so much , its the consolidation of ordering and fee as profit to the AMC not just supply and demand...anyway best of luck and good that we both stood up back in the day. Unfortunately, appraisers who hit values are still being hired for that very reason and some AMC;s ( or lenders ) will stop work flow if appraisers come in "low" on more then rare occasion...so while things have improved it's not as good as could be considering all the pain the HVCC bought at least it should be 100% pressure fee far from it..

 

[Overimprovement]

your market is different than mine here at least a segment of lenders pay far more and AMC;s ..but of course complex pays better for both. A shame there are appraisers who lower their fees so much , its the consolidation of ordering and fee as profit to the AMC not just supply and demand...anyway best of luck and good that we both stood up back in the day. Unfortunately, appraisers who hit values are still being hired for that very reason and some AMC;s ( or lenders ) will stop work flow if appraisers come in "low" on more then rare occasion...so while things have improved it's not as good as could be considering all the pain the HVCC bought at least it should be 100% pressure fee far from it..

I AM thankful to be in my particular market, though even here I find I am adding about 1 client every 2-3 months just to maintain my desired workload. Not too many left I haven't touched.
Yeah I have left a couple clients recently who play the hit the target game. One I left after ONE assignment. A HELOC with all kinds of grief about this comp or that comp and why didn't I count the basement as above grade GLA, etc etc. This was a mortgage broker, so not really direct or AMC. Just from my vantage point though, and knowing well some local bank lending VPs, it is still the lenders that drive the behavior of the AMCs (again, just around here is all I can speak to). If there is push back on value, it is the lender, not the AMC. I have NEVER had a report come back with an ROV or hoops to jump through based on value that was not initiated by the lender. Those reports always get past the AMC just fine. But my market is small enough where different AMCs really don't have that much different a roster of appraisers, so maybe the lenders know changing AMCs won't help much.

I would suggest every appraiser move into the country somewhere (just not around here--yes I am classic NIMBY) where there is less competition. While I still think price is where supply and demand meet, it is easier to move that intersection with a smaller number of players. I know---everyone likes their big cities. Problem is, so does everyone else.

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

These are the good old days.

OMG!

 

[Mr Rex]