What condition rating

[Joe Flacco]

Appliances are not structural.

If you have structural integrity issues then it is a C6.

C5 says some components may be missing or may be near the end of their useful life. Which is what grant described as being C4.

 

[Surf Cat]

Like USPAP, there's a lot of ambiguity in the ratings' definitions. Look at what Mckissock, a leading appraisal education company, says:

Property Condition C3

A home with a C3 rating has been generally well-maintained, and it’s in its first cycle of replacing short-lived building components (e.g., appliances, HVAC, floor coverings). The improvements are well-kept, showing minimal physical depreciation from regular wear and tear. While some components—though not all major building elements—might be updated or recently rehabbed, the structure has not undergone a complete renovation.

This would indicate the OP's kitchen squarely in C3. However, CGinMN's "official" definitions in post #2 suggests a C3 should have a remodeled kitchen or baths. That would indicate the OP's kitchen at a C4.

The rating is meant for the entirety of the subject anyway.....can't base it just solely on the kitchen.....

 

[J Grant]

Like USPAP, there's a lot of ambiguity in the ratings' definitions. Look at what Mckissock, a leading appraisal education company, says:

Property Condition C3

A home with a C3 rating has been generally well-maintained, and it’s in its first cycle of replacing short-lived building components (e.g., appliances, HVAC, floor coverings). The improvements are well-kept, showing minimal physical depreciation from regular wear and tear. While some components—though not all major building elements—might be updated or recently rehabbed, the structure has not undergone a complete renovation.

This would indicate the OP's kitchen squarely in C3. However, CGinMN's "official" definitions in post #2 suggests a C3 should have a remodeled kitchen or baths. That would indicate the OP's kitchen at a C4.

The rating is meant for the entirety of the subject anyway.....can't base it just solely on the kitchen.....

I disagree. The expanded version, which looks like the recent revision to the ratings, is very much in line with the original, and the subject would still be a C 3. The expanded version is clearer, particularly with C1 and C2 in a few regards, which is a good thing.

 

[Surf Cat]

I disagree. The expanded version, which looks like the recent revision to the ratings, is very much in line with the original, and the subject would still be a C 3. The expanded version is clearer, particularly with C1 and C2 in a few regards, which is a good thing.

You can disagree all you want....

Mckissock's version of a C3 is different from the expanded version C3 in post #2 of this thread..... ambiguity being my main point.

Ambiguity of the ratings is also proven correct in the responses to this thread.... everyone here should be on the same page, but we are not....

 

[Joe Flacco]

Yes, the overall rating would also consider other aspects of the property. The question is what is this kitchen indicative of. The mckissock definition also says some components "updated or recently rehabbed".

The question is the same. Does a kitchen renovated 25 years ago count as updated or recently rehabbed. I think that based on current buyer expectations of what is renovated or updated, this kitchen is now dated.

 

[TerryRohrer]

What is the difference between "well maintained" and "very well maintained"? How is that measured? Is it subjective? Is every appraiser, agent, buyer, and seller going to rate every property identically in these categories? The pursuit of quality and condition ratings that reflect impacts on value is a stupid and wasteful endeavor that only continues because those demanding it don't understand the problem and have the power to force appraisers to attempt to placate their stupidity. In the valuation of a subject, the only thing that matters is consistent treatment of subject and comps by the appraiser. And they will always be able to say, "no, your ratings are wrong and our software proves it" (for no other reason than they programmed it while hiding its methodology).

Is "dated" subjective? If the objection to "walking distance" is that it is subjective (keeping in mind that its use in an appraisal report has exactly no impact whatsoever on anything under the sun), how can the same morons making that judgement promulgate a "standard" for a seemingly important rating (to them alone) that relies on a completely subjective term? And as has been suggested earlier, markets differ. I get the impression, from reading appraiser's comments here and on Fakebook, that the norm in some markets is to remodel the entire dwelling every 5 years, and missing one year renders a home nearly unmarketable. Yet here, we have homes that are 70 years old and have the original kitchen, and often baths. A coat of paint on the original cupboards often has the same impact on price as their replacement with big box quality product appropriate to that market segment. So what is the middle of the cycle of every component? Is it 2.5 years for kitchens, or 35 years? What is a "newer" roof? What is a "newer" HVAC system? This is all subjective bull**** conjured up by folks who haven't analyzed real estate data in decades, if ever, and don't have a clue, and is entirely driven by the desire to collect data to then falsely present results of their analysis based on that data as "accurate" without ever allowing objective analysis of the data to gauge the veracity of their pronouncements.

 

[J Grant]

You can disagree all you want....

Mckissock's version of a C3 is different from the expanded version C3 in post #2 of this thread..... ambiguity being my main point.

Ambiguity of the ratings is also proven correct in the responses to this thread.... everyone here should be on the same page, but we are not....

Mckissok should not have a version - the URAR form has the ratings and it looks like the OP added expanded version that might be the UAD 3.6 version.

Imo, people who are off base (not on the same page ) is not due to ambiguity of the ratings, it is due to their own incompetence. Some simply cant seem to apply the ratings to actual properties. The raigns are not perfect, and any one of us can be off on occasion because of it, but IMO the ratings are pretty good and need to be considered holistically.

 

[Joe Flacco]

What is the difference between "well maintained" and "very well maintained"? How is that measured? Is it subjective? Is every appraiser, agent, buyer, and seller going to rate every property identically in these categories? The pursuit of quality and condition ratings that reflect impacts on value is a stupid and wasteful endeavor that only continues because those demanding it don't understand the problem and have the power to force appraisers to attempt to placate their stupidity. In the valuation of a subject, the only thing that matters is consistent treatment of subject and comps by the appraiser. And they will always be able to say, "no, your ratings are wrong and our software proves it" (for no other reason than they programmed it while hiding its methodology).

Is "dated" subjective? If the objection to "walking distance" is that it is subjective (keeping in mind that its use in an appraisal report has exactly no impact whatsoever on anything under the sun), how can the same morons making that judgement promulgate a "standard" for a seemingly important rating (to them alone) that relies on a completely subjective term? And as has been suggested earlier, markets differ. I get the impression, from reading appraiser's comments here and on Fakebook, that the norm in some markets is to remodel the entire dwelling every 5 years, and missing one year renders a home nearly unmarketable. Yet here, we have homes that are 70 years old and have the original kitchen, and often baths. A coat of paint on the original cupboards often has the same impact on price as their replacement with big box quality product appropriate to that market segment. So what is the middle of the cycle of every component? Is it 2.5 years for kitchens, or 35 years? What is a "newer" roof? What is a "newer" HVAC system? This is all subjective bull**** conjured up by folks who haven't analyzed real estate data in decades, if ever, and don't have a clue, and is entirely driven by the desire to collect data to then falsely present results of their analysis based on that data as "accurate" without ever allowing objective analysis of the data to gauge the veracity of their pronouncements.

Absolutely. UAD is all bull**** and consistent treatment of the subject and comps in each individual report is the only thing that matters.

It is 100% all subjective and at the same time they say subjective is not allowed. It's ridiculous bull****.

 

[Joe Flacco]

It's still a dated kitchen.

 

[J Grant]

There are additional blank lines on the grid ( or use narrative ) where an appraiser can adjust for and comment on the degree of remodeling or custom quality etc , which are in addition to the standards seen in the verbiage of the Q or C ratings

Indeed it is about data collection, but IMO the ratings are pretty good as a guide.