What do you need in a sketcher?

[KD247]

Terrence,

Wow - You really hated DCSketch! Were you using the Windows version?

Maybe it's just because I'm familiar with it, but the program's logic seems more straightforward than the other sketchers I've tried. The manual sucks, and the built-in help is not much less cumbersome, but I've brought new users up to full speed in just a couple of hours - moving walls, arcs, the whole deal.

I can't imagine any program being faster, and I like to be able to do an entire sketch on the keyboard, with the menu available if I forget a keyboard shortcut, and the mouse available for selecting items when necessary.

The sketch images paste straight into my report and look crisp. True, the images are not vector-and-typeface based, so they could degrade depending on the program you paste into.

DCSketch definitely has a garage-built-software feel to it, but no worse than many of the appraisal programs I've seen. The publishers don't even seem that interested in selling it anymore.

Our different impressions could also be due to different sketching requirements. I never use symbols in a sketch, rarely draw interior walls, and do a lot of homes with unusual designs.

As I said, it could be my familiarity with DCSketch that causes me to overlook its faults. Maybe I should give the newest version of WinSketch another try. But, I don't think I could live without the ability to easily move any wall around, at any time, while drawing the sketch or after the sketch is closed. Does WinSketch allow you to do that? If so, I'll probably give it another chance, just to join the mainstream!

Thanks,

Koert

 

[David Mullen]

One feature that I want is the ability to go back to an existing sketch and alter the length of one or more of the walls without having to start the sketch over again from scratch.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes is supposed to be DCSKTWIN. But I don't like the use of split window presentation...redundant. There is a menu at top, then a menu on a sidebar. Right click the mouse also works. And that silly replication of the numeric keyboard only confuses things, not to mention pen up / pen down modes, etc. Very slow input to me.

Also, I do about 75% of my appraisals as narratives, including private residential appraisals (that way no mortgage broker will call asking for an "update") Winsketch is the only one I can "Select ALL", SAVE AS METAFILE, then switch to WordPerfect and "PASTE" into a blank page in my addendum. It pastes as a wpg graphic file and then I can center it on the page and change the size to match my margins, add a border, and looks just as good as Winsketch printout. APEX does not seem to want to paste except to itself

The output (direct) from DCsketch looks good, but it wants to save as a .jpg file in order to put it in another program and the resolution is awful.

Someone mentioned moving walls. Again, how we use these programs surely varies a lot and affects our tastes. I cannot think of a time I have ever moved a wall or why I possibly would unless I was trying to guess a dimension I missed.

I also do a trick I learned from an assessor in Oklahoma. Really really complex geometric dwellings I occasionally run into around Grand Lake, NE OK, I use a DOS surveying program that has a building module. It calculates the totals. I have a Saw Protractor to use when I am desperate. I once spent over 2 hours measuring a nightmare dwelling.

 

[KD247]

Terrence,

You pointed out an important feature for sketch programs - the ability to handle keyboard-only input.

DCSKWIN lets you completely hide that annoying "control panel" and, with a little training, is extremely efficient. To draw a 27 x 31 rectangle, the keystrokes are 27 [Right Arrow], 31 [Down Arrow], 27[Left Arrow], 31[Up Arrow], [Insert]. Done! To copy the sketch and calculations to the clipboard, F7 [Shift-Tab] [Enter].

Just 12 keystrokes, no mouse, and I have the image on the clipboard, ready to paste into any application. If you save it as a jpg, it does look blurry, but if you save it as a bitmap, it's sharp. I don't see how it can be done any faster.

I'm going to blame your dissatisfaction on the confusing default screen set-up and the poorly worded manual.

Looking at DCSKWIN just now, I realized that with the side panel visible, you can actually draw a complete sketch with no keyboard. There's even a small pop-up alpha keyboard on the screen. They must have planned on earlier popularity of the tablet-type computers that are just now becoming affordable. I look forward to soon being able to carry a 2 pound, 14" tablet pc during inspections, drawing the sketch as I walk around the house and then switching over to the form and filling in the blanks while standing in the living room.

I like your idea to do residential appraisals in narrative form. Probably much more concise, and the important points don't get buried in the form. I'd like to do a few URAR appraisals in French and see how long it takes before anyone notices!

Koert

 

[Mike Garrett RAA]

ease of use, no long learning curves. I have just ordered Apex for Athena. I would like to be able to clone a floor plan easily, ie main level then basement. Automatic scaling if it becomes to large for the page. Ability to store floor plans within the sketch program by model numbers for new construction. Simple icon insertions.

 

[jtrotta]

John David Biggers; sounds to me like your attempting to come up with a product, so here's a novel idea;

I point my camera at the dwelling; Front / Side / Rear and Side; go back to the office plug the camera into the PC and when I hit "Floor Plan Sketch" I can download the basic floor plan of the house.

Now, if you can accomplish that 8O I'll buy your product other than that, Apex suits me just fine 8)

 

[Anonymous]

Just did a house with those bent in the middle parts at non-regular angle. Sketch was nightmare as it also had a sunroom at the bend with 4 corners. HECKOFATIME sketching it. So I broke it into two parts. One squarish part and one not....would love to have a method of doing that, then rotating the part to the correct angle and attaching it..can't think of any program that allows that. Sumthun' I donno?

 

[KD247]

Terrel,

With DCSketch, I've had good luck sketching some real oddballs, including irregular geodesic-type additions. I once appraised the house of an oceanographer whose goal was to build a three story house with no walls at right angles. He said something like"The Devil hides in corners."

Usually odd-angled wings are comprised mostly of 90 and 45 degree angles, only attached to the main section at an odd angle. For these I draw each section separately, select a wing, rotate the entire wing, and move it into place.

If a house is a true mixture of odd angles, I do my field sketch to scale on graph paper. First, I'll establish a reference point, or better yet, a reference line (the entrance to an attached garage is usually the most prominent straight line). With this reference on the graph, I'll measure and plot the relationship of every other accessible reference point. These points will hopefully include a house corner or two, but will also often include trees, fencelines, a dog house, or a pencil stuck in the lawn. From these reference points, I'll have direct line of sight to additional corners of the house. If you can measure the distance of a corner from two reference points, you've got that one nailed down. Before I've finished, I'll make sure I've measured the net width and depth of the structure as well as every individual wall length, including as many interior measurements as possible.

Back at my desk, I'll draw lines and arcs to set the major reference points, then just connect the dots to fill in the walls. When I used to try to figure angles and wall lengths, my sketches didn't always close. By using several reference points on each side of the house, I don't need to concern myself with the measurement of angles. Just attach one end of the wall and rotate it to match the next reference point or intersection. After the main structure is closed, minor details like bay windows can be easily added. Sounds complicated, but it's easier than measuring walls and guessing angles only to find your sketch misses closing by 25 feet.

Let me know if you need a refresher on how to select, rotate, and move a section in DCSketch.

Koert

 

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

My field work and sketch is very similar to Koerts. I use Apex and I discovered years ago that the trick was their free hand function (F5 key) also their curve (F7 key) is very handy. So with a sketch like Koerts, by the way, I do some interior measurements also from wall to wall or door to door, anything that could tie exterior walls and interior features together. Then with Apex, go crazy with the free hand before I start any calculated areas. I can put some lines down like the total width and depth of the building, a curve on one side of the building, an angle on another side, tie them together with an interior measurement, add some more odd ball lines that might tie up with something on the opposite of the house, finally start connecting the dots--and usually come out to the tenth of an inch! Once I am done playing around with the free hand lines, I do the calculated area line, matching up corners by using the Ctrl J key and the I am done. If you liked playing with Etch a Sketch when you were a kid, Apex is fun!

 

[Anonymous]

Is that Apex II or IV? My "hand" bought IV recently and with much frustration is trying to figure it out. She finally said, "I just as well be learning to use Winsketch!" Toterwords, IV and II (which has been years since I tried it) must work differently - as she had been using II until recently.

With Winsketch I have not figured out how to rotate parts to fit unless right angles, but then when I see one of those complex ones I go to my landchec (obsolete DOS) surveying program for its building function and do it there via angles and lengths.

I like Winsketch primarily because of the "select all", Save as Metafile, then bop out of program & into WordPerfect and "paste" to get a sketch and calculations. Apex allows a metafile or jpg pix, but does not have the calculations only the sketch. Winsketch is the closest to WYSIWYG unless there is a function key I donno about in either DC or APEX, you simply do not see what the printout will look like until you preview.