What does it Mean to Protect the Public Trust

[George Hatch]

can't tell it by my bank account Why do you think I still work at age 72?


The unfortunate truth is that we work with people with an agenda and because of that they intrinsically attempt to influence the appraiser. Secondly we are making a fairly short spot inspection of a house and hope we didn't miss anything. We are not precision estimators and even if we could precisely estimate every board in a house, it does not matter. Buyer and Seller motivations trump quant analysis.

Not really - in almost every state, they are not able to stop you from appraising unlicensed. You can go directly to any bank as an evaluator and produce below de minimus evaluations all day long, never worry about being sanctioned, fined or forbidden to value that property. Most mineral appraisers in the USA are unlicensed as appraisers. Most timber appraisers are unlicensed as appraisers. Most machinery appraisers are not licensed as appraisers. And people in those specialties cannot even earn hours towards a CG or CR from doing these kinds of appraisals even when mineral and timberland appraisals are real property. And I do not know of a court in the nation who will stop an unlicensed appraiser from testifying in court if they otherwise meet the Daubert standard....if that standard is even brought up. Most of the condemnation appraisers in Oklahoma are unlicensed after DOT stacked the state board and tried to sanction them all until the real courts reversed their decision.

Back in the day RE appraising was way wilder than anything you've ever seen as an appraiser. ANY reduction in that horseplay completely offsets any downsides of putting appraisers, reviewers and users on the same appraisal standard. Etc, etc.

Even prior to licensing, none of us would have even had a career if it wasn't for govt meddling in the lending business and imposing us on these lenders against their will.

 

[George Hatch]

From the same guy who said it was fine that appraisers don’t make market condition adjustments in an increasing market because they would get pushback from their clients. Thus, they mislead both client and user and violate USPAP. Go back to your bubble in San Diego before it pops. USPAP has failed, and so have you get over it already time to move on. Look into a hobby travel somewhere. I can tell you don’t get out much.

Say what? First off, what's "fine" is determined by the user. Not me. And not you. If lenders are accepting a given workproduct not only is that choice on them but it also demonstrates what they will/won't actually accept. Secondly, me saying that the reason appraisers don't make adjustments if because of expediency isn't code for me saying "it's fine."

As for "failed" I would ask you "failed" compared to what? If this was 1986 how else would you have proceeded, and in what way can you honestly say that alternative would have resulted in a superior outcome? How overvalued do you think the current appraisals are when compared to the utter trash that was coming in off the wholesale lines in the 2000s because appraisers were working off contingent engagements and contingent fees?

 

[ucbruin]

Considering some of the posts I have read over the years. One could surmise that willful ignorance or just plain stupidity also contributed.

Probably laid the groundwork for technology....

 

[Mejappz]

Say what? First off, what's "fine" is determined by the user. Not me. And not you. If lenders are accepting a given workproduct not only is that choice on them but it also demonstrates what they will/won't actually accept. Secondly, me saying that the reason appraisers don't make adjustments if because of expediency isn't code for me saying "it's fine."

As for "failed" I would ask you "failed" compared to what? If this was 1986 how else would you have proceeded, and in what way can you honestly say that alternative would have resulted in a superior outcome? How overvalued do you think the current appraisals are when compared to the utter trash that was coming in off the wholesale lines in the 2000s because appraisers were working off contingent engagements and contingent fees?

I know it’s been 40 years since you did an appraisal for the GSEs, but if you are going to comment on what they deem acceptable for their uses, you should at least read what they say.

B4-1.1-04, Unacceptable Appraisal Practices (02/02/2022)

selling-guide.fanniemae.com

 

[George Hatch]

Again, my observation that the lenders demonstrate what they do/don't consider acceptable by what they engage and pay for doesn't amount to me saying "it's fine" for appraisers to short them.

You are unable to sell what you want to sell to your clients. You should probably figure out how to get over your frustration because IRL they don't care what either of us think.

 

[Mejappz]

I’m following what the users this case, the GSEs want. On the other hand, you are telling appraisers to pick and choose what parts of their guidelines they want to follow.

 

[George Hatch]

I said no such thing. Even if I had, it wouldn't matter because it's still true that the reason a lot of appraisers don't make the market conditions adjustments is because the lenders sometimes hassle them for it when they do. Me pointing that fact out - which you cannot deny - is not a form of advocacy, either.

Why don't you just admit that your real beef in all this is that most of the big lenders don't value your work any more highly than that of the low cost appraisers? All this talk about threats to the national economy are just a thinly veiled virtue signal that you're using as an excuse.

IRL, a market conditions adjustment that isn't made won't lead to a gross overvaluation anyway, which avoiding those IS the primary usage of those appraisal reports. A thoughtless, sloppy and substandard appraisal where corners were cut isn't where all the risk comes in. The risk comes in where appraisers deliberately tell lies (formerly on behalf of their loan originator clients) in order to cheat the lender by grossly overvaluing the property. As long as an appraisal isn't doing that then *from the lender's perspective* that's all they need it to do. We think of sloppy work as being a much bigger problem than they do, as is evidenced by their conduct with those appraisals.

 

[Mejappz]

Here is another example of what users want and what is actually happening on the ground. So Fannie Mae wants appraisers to adhere to ANSI, right? We know many appraisers (those favored by AMC and Lenders) are not. So, what do these appraisers do? Easy, write a statement saying you followed ANSI when your sketch clearly states otherwise. So the ones who try and follow the guidelines through either education or investment in software etc., are punished because they expect a slightly higher fee for their investment and time. In contrast, those who lie and say they followed ANSI are rewarded with more work. Eventually, the former says the hell with it and joins the latter and writes a statement saying they adhere to ANSI, misleading the users and violating USPAP.

Good Afternoon,

We're sending out this update to review the Fannie Mae (FNMA) requirement regarding compliance with the ANSI® Z765-2021 Standard



FNMA’s requirement for the use of the ANSI method for measuring single-family residential (SFR) dwellings, and how to demonstrate adherence to this standard.

In July 2022, FNMA released a FAQ to provide guidance on the requirements and how lenders can ensure appraisers comply with ANSI.



FNMA outlines three scenarios in which the ANSI declaration is required:

1. Proposed or under-construction assignment that rely on plans rather than physical measurements.
2. Situations when physically impossible to measure the dwelling due to factors such as steep terrain.
3. Or when using the opt out code “GXX001-” for situations when ANSI cannot be used such as a state requiring the use of another measuring method.

Lenders can validate appraisers adhere to the ANSI standard by:

• Verify the sketch or floor plan exhibit in the appraisal report contains exterior dimensions to the nearest inch or tenth of a foot.
• Required dimensions and calculations provided.
  • Above grade, below grade, finished and unfinished areas (all areas must be drawn on sketch).
• Areas that do not meet minimum ceiling requirements are indicated and separated from living square footage.
• Cross check photos with sketch to ensure contours of walls match.

A declaration that ANSI was adhered to is not sufficient. ANSI must be demonstrated in the sketch, and the sketch addendum serves as documentation that the appraiser adhered to ANSI® Z765-2021.

 

[djd09]

cant be independent if they are always telling you what and how to do, anyways

what changes in USPAP has made the appraiser more independent, objective, and unbiased...sure aint the sow rule...15th st is a party

 

[George Hatch]

cant be independent if they are always telling you what and how to do, anyways . what their expectations are

what changes in USPAP has made the appraiser more independent, objective, and unbiased...sure aint the sow rule...15th st is a party

Clients and/or users telling you what their SR1/SR2 expectations are will not infringe upon your impartiality and objectivity, nor does it relieve you of the obligation to make your own SOW decisions.

Are you even familiar with how the DEPARTURE RULE (and the associated SUPPLEMENTAL STANDARDS RULE) worked prior to being replaced with the SOWR? Because if you knew what you were talking about you would realize the SOWR has given appraisers a LOT more discretion and freedom than they ever had prior to that transition.