Where Do You Think "geographic Competency" Begins And Ends?

[Mr Rex]

might....

 

[DWiley]

So what? We all have examples of individual special circumstance assignments. You don't get it that these special assignments are not the concern, such as given 2 weeks and $X fee you wanted, what is the problem with that? The concern is how out of are geo competence this might play out in bulk of lending work...not a one off credit union or private assignment that happens on occasion with ideal time and or fee to appraiser ...

While you made some good observations in post 494, the post quoted above is absolutely missing the key point. The COMPETENCY RULE applies to ALL appraisals, not just to hybrids, not just to lender work, So, any rules that are adopted about competency (includng geo competency) will have to apply to ALL work as well. So, yes, I am concerned about that one-off credit union assignment and that private assignment, because they will be subject to the same rules. That is the very crux of my concern. If rules are based on knee jerk reactions and emotion rather than sound fundamental principles, the unintended consequences could be large and detrimental.

It would be a big mistake for anyone to assume that just because I am employed by an AMC that is all I think about

 

[Carnivore]

And what does the controlling authority know about competency? Only what is deemed necessary by state politicians and the ASB, AQB.

In my state if you have a complaint filed against you the State AB Investigator will ask the question about GEO-Competency.

 

[George Hatch]

Danny has asked repeatedly where the line of geo competency and doing the research aka for std -12 or 3 lies. imo they are two different things that can intersect, but they are not one and the same..

Geo competence means the appraiser already knows the area, the various influences in a region beyond the smaller assignment specific town or subdivision..

No it doesn't. You're wrong about that. Incorrect. Error in fact.


The COMPETENCY RULE doesn't require the appraiser to know everything about an area, a larger region, a specific town or a subdivision. Let alone know it all at the outset of the assignment.


There is what the RULE and SR1 actually say, and and whatever they don't say they simply don't say. SR1 provides the elaboration of the COMPETENCY RULE as it applies to appraisal development, and SR1-2.e speaks to the this issue:

"(e) identify the characteristics of the property that are relevant to the type and definition of value and intended use of the appraisal"

Note the SR doesn't refer to requiring the appraiser to identify everything, but does refer to those characteristics that are relevant to the type and definition of value and intended use of the appraisal. Which in this context includes the location, physical, legal and economic attributes of the property being appraised.



The URAR is an appraisal report format that was designed by Fannie (the dominant superuser) for their use, and which has been widely adopted by almost all residential users as their default.

Fannie has told appraisers that the form drives the development, which makes anyone who is USPAP-savvy crazy because they're incorrect about that aspect, but nonetheless that always been Fannie's view so I think it's safe for anyone to take them at their word that the level of detail they ask for on that form represents the reporting element of the level of development that they consider to be meaningful and sufficient for their use.

You can expand that to include the 1004mc analysis, which actually speaks to the subject's market segment, not necessarily the immediate neighborhood, but the application is the same in any case.

The GPAR is another form residential appraisers use, and it's basic format is the same except for some of the housekeeping elements. The AI forms were designed by the AI and IIRC even their form doesn't go beyond the subject's neighborhood, or if it does it's asking generic questions you can extract from a Wiki entry.

Now you can move the goalpost and say Fannie didn't really mean it when they limited the macro view of the analysis to extend no further than the neighborhood but you'd have a tough time demonstrating how they were actually asking about the region, the county, the city or even the community in which that neighborhood is located. because those are questions they didn't ask, and which most local buyers aren't considering in making their choices within this or nearby competing neighborhoods.

Moreover, most SFR appraisers don't even get into the specifics of neighborhood composition in that section, and many appraisers simply defer to the meaningless boilerplate, so there's no indication those appraisers even know anything about that neighborhood except what they saw of it while they were there. That right there demonstrates what your peers actions are WRT identifying relevant characteristics that occur outside the subject's parcel boundaries.

So what questions does Fannie ask about that neighborhood that you would be unable to answer from your desk prior to even setting foot there? None. If you have the appropriate datasources and those datasources are reasonably complete and reasonably accurate to answer such a question you could do it all from your desk. Unless the quality of the available databases are sub-par you can figure this stuff out in just a few minutes with a little digging.

You know it, I know it, and so does everyone else here.

If all your comps are located within that neighborhood then it basically doesn't matter what else is going on in that community or that region because the comps that matter are subject to all the same factors as the property you're appraising. Not that Fannie or most of the lenders are even asking those questions because they aren't.

if all your comps are recent and located in that neighborhood then what difference does it make that Mr Bert Lizard is the neighborhood's dominant broker or that XYZ andscaping has a cult following? If these attributes are significant to the marketing of a property then it will be mentioned prominently in the listing.

So yeah, we can attribute the pixie dust factor to what we do in these assignments and tell people it takes meme magik to complete properly, but none of that enters into what these users think is meaningful to their decisions.

 

[Eli]

No it doesn't. You're wrong about that. Incorrect. Error in fact.


The COMPETENCY RULE doesn't require the appraiser to know everything about an area, a larger region, a specific town or a subdivision. Let alone know it all at the outset of the assignment.


There is what the RULE and SR1 actually say, and and whatever they don't say they simply don't say. SR1 provides the elaboration of the COMPETENCY RULE as it applies to appraisal development, and SR1-2.e speaks to the this issue:

"(e) identify the characteristics of the property that are relevant to the type and definition of value and intended use of the appraisal"

Note the SR doesn't refer to requiring the appraiser to identify everything, but does refer to those characteristics that are relevant to the type and definition of value and intended use of the appraisal. Which in this context includes the location, physical, legal and economic attributes of the property being appraised.



The URAR is an appraisal report format that was designed by Fannie (the dominant superuser) for their use, and which has been widely adopted by almost all residential users as their default.

Fannie has told appraisers that the form drives the development, which makes anyone who is USPAP-savvy crazy because they're incorrect about that aspect, but nonetheless that always been Fannie's view so I think it's safe for anyone to take them at their word that the level of detail they ask for on that form represents the reporting element of the level of development that they consider to be meaningful and sufficient for their use.

The GPAR is another form residential appraisers use, and it's basic format is the same except for some of the housekeeping elements. The AI forms were designed by the AI and IIRC even their form doesn't go beyond the subject's neighborhood, or if it does it's asking generic questions you can extract from a Wiki entry.

Now you can move the goalpost and say Fannie didn't really mean it when they limited the macro view of the analysis to extend no further than the neighborhood but you'd have a tough time demonstrating how they were actually asking about the region, the county, the city or even the community in which that neighborhood is located. because those are questions they didn't ask, and which most local buyers aren't considering in making their choices within this or nearby competing neighborhoods.

Moreover, most SFR appraisers don't even get into the specifics of neighborhood composition in that section, and many appraisers simply defer to the meaningless boilerplate, so there's no indication those appraisers even know anything about that neighborhood except what they saw of it while they were there.

So what questions does Fannie ask about that neighborhood that you would be unable to answer from your desk prior to even setting foot there? None. If you have the appropriate datasources and those datasources are reasonably complete and reasonably accurate to answer such a question you could do it all from your desk.

If all your comps are located within that neighborhood then it basically doesn't matter what else is going on in that community or that region because the comps that matter are subject to all the same factors as the property you're appraising. Not that Fannie or most of the lenders are even asking those questions because they aren't.

if all your comps are recent and located in that neighborhood then what difference does it make that Mr Bert Lizard is the neighborhood's dominant broker or that XYZ andscaping has a cult following? If these attributes are significant to the marketing of a property then it will be mentioned prominently in the listing.

So yeah, we can attribute the pixie dust factor to what we do in these assignments and tell people it takes meme magik to complete properly, but none of that enters into what these users think is meaningful to their decisions.

You are losing it.

I can show you neighborhoods where 50 feet make all the difference in the world.


You preach experience over and over then try to BS me? Your losing it dog.

You are being very narrow minded. Show me your neighborhood boundaries. Competing properties is my focus. Your full of BS. And trying to sling it.

 

[Eli]

GH, have I given you the Tennessee appraiser coalition as a source to bounce things off of? You seem to like bouncing things. Lol

 

[George Hatch]

I can show you such neighborhoods too, and guess what? The reason that either you or I would even know about such situation is because of our access and analysis of the data. When those factors are present they are mentioned prominently in the listings, their effects show up in the sales histories, and so on. Simply "being there" isn't the primary way people come to recognize these things anymore.

I do this kind of thing all the time. The level of research I get into for my SFR assignments DWARFS the SOW I commonly see described or alluded to by some of the SFR appraisers out there, and one reason I do that is precisely because I don't consider my knowledge of any neighborhood I'm going into to be so perfect that I don't need to look at the data.

 

[Eli]

I can show you such neighborhoods too, and guess what? The reason that either you or I would even know about such situation is because of our access and analysis of the data. When those factors are present they are mentioned prominently in the listings, their effects show up in the sales histories, and so on. Simply "being there" isn't the primary way people come to recognize these things anymore.

I do this kind of thing all the time. The level of research I get into for my SFR assignments DWARFS the SOW I commonly see described or alluded to by some of the SFR appraisers out there, and one reason I do that is precisely because I don't consider my knowledge of any neighborhood I'm going into to be so perfect that I don't need to look at the data.

Ok, but the real estate market is dynamic. Your trying to put it in a box. You can’t do that.

AMC’s and big lenders are trying to put the market in a box. Your little escapades are feeding them. They paying you? Lol

 

[djd09]

Big data vs Bad data.

According to the data the ice caps should have melted years ago.

You cannot scope away misleading.

 

[DWiley]

How will an appraiser, or client , be able to defend a report when it is pointed out to them by a reviewer, or RE agent, buyer or seller, that the appraiser never worked in the area before, or in case of a desktop, never even went there? If these bifurcated or desktops expand to origination appraisals the questions will come up.

As with any assignment, the defense would be in presentation of supporting data. It is not living or visiting an area that leads to knowing about the area, it is the information one has analyzed about the area. Assuming or asserting that one has to physically visit an area is just silly, and it fails to recognize the key role of an appraiser - to provide analysis and support for conclusions.. It would be not much of a challenge for anyone to provide examples of local appraisers working on auto pilot and not really knowing areas that they visit regularly, because they are on autopilot and are not analyzing the data.