Where Do You Think "geographic Competency" Begins And Ends?

[George Hatch]

s.


I never denied appraiser business interests was a concern of mine, I said it was in early posts. You however deny that the business interests of AMC's and lenders to advantage them from appraisers going along with drop geo competence
did not enter into your posts .You just introduced this for a theoretical debate, knowing hybrid acceptance ( at least DWiley admits it), can ride on this? The state and govt has already intervened and the intervention has been to benefit lender /AMC interests at our expense. So spare me the ridiculous sermons about protection- they are the ones making massive profit from the protection they have gotten..

First off, I've already answered your accusations that I'm acting in bad faith or being dishonest in any way.

The issue is a technology issue, not an AMC issue as such. if there were no AMCs the big box banks would still be trying to invent the better (for them) mousetrap, because that's what every business does.

You didn't refrain from converting over to digital imagery to protect the business interests of the photo developer service you were previously using, did you? You didn't stop patronizing the courier service or the postal service that you were using to send your reports when PDFs and XML came along, did you? You didn't stop making multiple trips out to your assignments to pick up comparables pics in favor of copy/paste from the MLS listings, did you? The lists of your actions in your own interests is just as long as applies to these bankers, and yes also to the AMCs the banks employ to control their costs.

And yeah, back before you got into this business I ditched still other services that you have no clue about, based on me finding the better solution for my interests. I stopped patronizing the typist I paid $1/page to to type my appraisal reports, I ditched my patronage of Forms/Worms when I stopped buying their printed report forms - including the various addenda and rub-on arrows. I ditched the Californa Market Data Collective and the DAMAR online commercial sales databases when better alternatives came along. I stopped employing an answering service or a receptionist when the answering machines came online. I stopped patroniszing the microfiche viewer/printer vendors when the CD-ROMS enabled me to do it with a PC and a printer. The list of services I stopped patronizing in furtherance of my personal interests is probably twice as long as your's.

So neither you nor I have any room to talk about how our clients are obligated to protect us - we've screwed plenty of our previous vendors over in furtherance of our own business interests, just the same as has every other appraiser I've ever met.

If you patronize Amazon or Costco or Wal-Mart for things you used to buy down on Main Street then you're guilty of exactly the same behavior that drives these lenders to seek out their alternatives and exercise their prerogatives. Same motivations, same behavior, same virtue or guilt.

It's long past time for any of us to stop clutching our pearls and taking to our fainting couches at the fresh insults the long march of tech and commerce have inflicted on us. We have no moral high ground to be whining about other businesses exercising their prerogatives in the same manner we've been doing.

 

[George Hatch]

Then why license anyone. Banks don't want it. No one else requires it.

Because the state has stepped in to be the underwriter of last resort for this sector of the economy and has imposed our services on the lenders as an additional cost of doing business. \

We're already a special interest and we've already been living on borrowed time.

 

[George Hatch]

You spin any way you want. They want us to work with crooks, then they should expect crooked results.

As I say, that's not my line. i didn't make it up. That is the official party line.

You interact with less-than-ethical people in other areas of your life. That doesn't give you the pass WRT your own decisions and conduct.

 

[glenn walker]

Angry-Cat says this is just stupid - Grow up act and be professionals and quit the Cat-Fight !

 

[Joe Flacco]

Sorry, but the facts are the facts.

I took that line right out of the book. It is the party line. I didn't make it up. Nor did I misunderstand it's meaning the way you just did.

What that line means is other than how you interpreted it. It's not that the client is responsible for the public trust in the appraisal profession, its that how the public comes to perceive the appraisal profession in terms of credibility is dependent on our performance in our assignments, which are engaged and used by these clients. They're the ones who measure what we submit against what they expected, and it is their actions WRT how they use these appraisals that others in the public see.

So what you are saying is that when it comes to public trust, the client is the public. Is that correct?

 

[George Hatch]

No, I'm saying what the client and users experience with the appraiser gets around and contributes significantly to our profession's credibility with the public. The term "Public Trust" as used in USPAP doesn't refer to our economy or the overall well being of society (such as "protecting the equity position in RE"), but rather the trusting relationship our profession aspires to have with society.

When a lawyer or a broker or a lender says they can send an assignment out to 50 appraisers and get 50 different answers the promulgation of that sentiment can impact the public's trust in our profession. If my client thinks I'm an idiot or a liar that undermines the interests of our entire profession a little, particularly if they have a good reason to think that because my conduct is subpar.

You realize that the primary thing you sell is not URARs with your name at the bottom, right? There's nothing special about you having an opinion of value - everyone in the transaction has one, and some of them are even well-informed. The primary attribute that makes your opinion marketable is the trust that the users have in your impartiality (in particular) and your overall competence (in general). Were this not the case these users could just take the broker's word for it.

This is not something I'm making up - it's a fundamental concept in any discussion of where our profession came from, why we exist, and why we have these different benchmarks for these various elements of what we do. Appraisal standards were not created for the purpose of interfering in your business - they exist primarily to support your legitimate interests by identifying what the level playing field between you and your competitors is supposed to look like as well as what the playing field between you and your users is supposed to look like.

That the IRL experience varies doesn't mean the standards are arbitrary or meaningless any more than does the existence of crime mean that the laws in our criminal codes that are being violated by the bad actors are meaningless.

 

[Michigan CG]

First off, I've already answered your accusations that I'm acting in bad faith or being dishonest in any way.

The issue is a technology issue, not an AMC issue as such. if there were no AMCs the big box banks would still be trying to invent the better (for them) mousetrap, because that's what every business does.

You didn't refrain from converting over to digital imagery to protect the business interests of the photo developer service you were previously using, did you? You didn't stop patronizing the courier service or the postal service that you were using to send your reports when PDFs and XML came along, did you? You didn't stop making multiple trips out to your assignments to pick up comparables pics in favor of copy/paste from the MLS listings, did you? The lists of your actions in your own interests is just as long as applies to these bankers, and yes also to the AMCs the banks employ to control their costs.

And yeah, back before you got into this business I ditched still other services that you have no clue about, based on me finding the better solution for my interests. I stopped patronizing the typist I paid $1/page to to type my appraisal reports, I ditched my patronage of Forms/Worms when I stopped buying their printed report forms - including the various addenda and rub-on arrows. I ditched the Californa Market Data Collective and the DAMAR online commercial sales databases when better alternatives came along. I stopped employing an answering service or a receptionist when the answering machines came online. I stopped patroniszing the microfiche viewer/printer vendors when the CD-ROMS enabled me to do it with a PC and a printer. The list of services I stopped patronizing in furtherance of my personal interests is probably twice as long as your's.

So neither you nor I have any room to talk about how our clients are obligated to protect us - we've screwed plenty of our previous vendors over in furtherance of our own business interests, just the same as has every other appraiser I've ever met.

If you patronize Amazon or Costco or Wal-Mart for things you used to buy down on Main Street then you're guilty of exactly the same behavior that drives these lenders to seek out their alternatives and exercise their prerogatives. Same motivations, same behavior, same virtue or guilt.

It's long past time for any of us to stop clutching our pearls and taking to our fainting couches at the fresh insults the long march of tech and commerce have inflicted on us. We have no moral high ground to be whining about other businesses exercising their prerogatives in the same manner we've been doing.

AND...George for the take-down and pin!

 

[Joe Flacco]

Well, what we have now is clients and society think we are idiots and most clients use appraisals because they have to. So something failed.

 

[PL1957]

Well, what we have now is clients and society think we are idiots and most clients use appraisals because they have to. So something failed.

That attitude was prevalent in the mid-1980's and is prevalent now. Everybody in the transaction KNOWS the value ... the appraisal is there just to check the regulatory box as far as most clients are concerned ...

 

[George Hatch]

Well, what we have now is clients and society think we are idiots and most clients use appraisals because they have to. So something failed.

You're right about that, and that something that has failed is us. Or perhaps a little more specifically our donkeys.

Every lie they've told in furtherance of client advocacy, every runner they've sent out to impersonate them so they can fraudulently single sign an appraisal, every analysis they screwed up because their SOW amounted to inputting a search in the MLS and downloading the 3 sales at the bottom of the list because they're within 1 mile of the subject, and a dozen other shortcuts and untruths they've told have undermined YOUR position. They have profited unfairly by exploiting the difference between what they said they did vs what they actually did, and have presented themselves as being just as virtuous as you or any other peer.

If you want a primary suspect for most of our problems it is on our own side of the appraiser-client relationship. It's in our own house, and it's a few of the people among us who have been stabbing us in the back.