Why I Use MLS Photos

[DMZwerg]

If you appraise a luxury gated community in Greenwich, CT. and ALL the comps are located behind locked gates tightly watched by security what do you do?

Appraisers appraise properties, not just dwellings, and the certification states "from street" not "and take photos of the front of the house". So you inspect from the street, what's the problem?

This thread addresses other issues.
The main issue with photos is legality.
The other issue is "proof" of inspection (aka, what you could confirm visually and what, instead, you had to rely on other sources of information about).

The only issue in your question is how to handle the unacceptable assignment condition foisted on you by the client.

 

[VegasWayne]

DMZ,
Did I infringe on a copyright when I scanned this picture?

It is my great-great-great-grandfather in his civil war uniform.

 

[Delta85]

I'm not arguing that lenders accept those photos; I'm not dismissing the difficulty of accessing some comparable sales. I do think that, if access is difficult, diligence requires a little extra effort - I know what I do but I don't necessarily think that's prescriptive.

Having given testimony in an adversarial trial, and having been examined aggressively both at trial and in deposition, I have simply come to the conclusion that dismissing the scope of work by not looking at the comparables - regardless of the photos used - has an element of risk that doesn't attach to complying with the scope of work. Any moral or ethical component aside, not doing what you attest you do puts you at peril if Fannie, Freddie or some subsequent person or entity that relies on your report decides that your appraisal is deficient. You may think differently, but in a litigious situation I'd much prefer not to have to admit that I'd knowingly signed a statement I knew to be false. Read Cert. 24:

What would you suggest an appraiser do? Stake out the home and wait for the owners to get home? Trespass on private property? Use a disguise and play Fletch?

It is what it is. We are required to view the home at least from the street. If the home is not visible what else can you do? We have no authority to enter private property.

For homes up along private driveways you can attempt to enter the property and get permission to look at and photograph the home. That's a possiblity but there is no promise anyone will be home or that they will allow you to take photos. As for gated communities there is not much else one can do if access is denied altogether and why should we push the matter?

 

[Delta85]

There was a time in my state that if you sent in a picture of a gate to FHA, the report got rejected...period. Find a way to see the property or don't use the pix. That was their rule.

With the advent of so many high hat houses behind closed gates, I am of the opinion that sooner or later I can weasel my way in - I am sure UPS and FEDEX can get in... so if I get it, I will have a picture of every *&^%ed house in that gated community...otherwise, Draganfly here I come ... (i can't get enough of that puppy..)

UPS and FEDEX have a legit reason to get in. They are making deliveries to residents living inside. We are not suppose to be weaseling our way into anywhere. The last thing we need is more cowboy talk. Breaking the law, fooling guards, sliding in behind other cars, impersonating those with access, etc. is not professional behavior and could lead to criminal and/or physical trouble. This is horrible and unprofessional advise for young appraisers to listen to.

And even if you got in and took a picture of every @!$%@# house what does that matter? If one of those homes sells a week from today your picture is worth dust. You need a photo after the closing date.

 

[Delta85]

Appraisers appraise properties, not just dwellings, and the certification states "from street" not "and take photos of the front of the house". So you inspect from the street, what's the problem?

You can't inspect what you can't see. Let alone photograph it.

 

[gregb]

I can see it now, paparazzi appraiser, arrested for taking a photo of a home in a gated development, lost her appraisal license, for violating the reasonable expectation of privacy during a trespass when the home owner's video cameras caught her car on private property with occupant using a spotting scope on a Nikon.

 

[AnonApprsr]

I use MLS photos for all the reasons you didn't list. You know, the legitimate ones that have been mentioned repeatedly in this thread.

BIASED POLL! BOOO! HISSSSS!

Oh and as someone mentioned Google Street view for pictures, I actually used that for the Subject the other day. I had to edit out whatever is in the top left corner, I forget now maybe an arrow or something? I had 40 pictures of the Subject yet forgot the street picture. I was so unhappy. I searched MLS for houses on the street to see if some broker had included a street picture in the last 3 years with similar foliage... and I got one with snow in it. I was going to stick that in and explain until I remembered good old google. Bam, exact foliage was there and a little photo editing and I got to ship the report.

 

[DMZwerg]

You can't inspect what you can't see. Let alone photograph it.

You inspect WHAT you see.
If you certified that you inspected all comps at least from the street then you need to make sure that is what you did.
If during that street inspection all you could see from the street is a wall, a gate, and a bunch of trees (and the view through the gate is more trees), then the inspection from the street is exactly that, wall, gate & trees as THAT is the property from the street.

USPAP does not require inspection of comps at all, that is a client requirement, most often straight from the certifications listed in the standard agreement (aka, the certs on the form used). By negotiating use of and agreeing to a particular form the standards and certs of that form become part of the assignment agreement. Nothing states you are not to go beyond what you can visually determine and that you can't examine records or MLS. Nor am I stating that MLS isn't a valid source. What I am stating is that theft is theft and including (stealing) somebody else's intellectual property in something you are getting paid for could well be considered a violation of the law (aka, a crime).

If the client requires a picture of the front of main dwelling for every property used then you have 3 choices:

1. drop the order (unacceptable assignment condition if you feel a property you can not get such from the street is necessary for the assignment)
2. violate the law (aka, either trespass or use the IP of somebody else without permission)
3. go that extra mile and try to gain access legally (call and request entrance, or call and request right to use the "MLS" picture in your report)

Guess which choice too many appraisers make?

I can see it now, paparazzi appraiser, arrested for taking a photo of a home in a gated development, lost her appraisal license, for violating the reasonable expectation of privacy during a trespass when the home owner's video cameras caught her car on private property with occupant using a spotting scope on a Nikon.

I have walked the sidewalks or stood in the street and taken pictures with high zoom ...

Trespass is also a violation of the law and could have ramifications

 

[DMZwerg]

DMZ,
Did I infringe on a copyright when I scanned this picture?

It is my great-great-great-grandfather in his civil war uniform.

I am not a lawyer but would ask you this ... Can you infringe on something that is in the public domain?
With a photo taken prior to 1923 there is unlikely any question as to whether or not it is in the public domain.

Unfortunately for most appraisers most local MLS(s) state that they hold some copyright to all information contained within, so I recommend you contact a lawyer to make certain you can use MLS photos (or contact your MLS). Bottom line, find out if something is definitely public domain or not before putting it into a report, brochure, or package that you are getting paid money for creating/gathering/sending.

If you don't believe me as to the photo you showed, contact an IP lawyer, as they would gladly take your money.

 

[DMZwerg]

UPS and FEDEX have a legit reason to get in. They are making deliveries to residents living inside.

No they don't.
A delivery is not a legitimate reason[/i[] to trespass, and without permission it would almost certainly be as much trespassing for the delivery person as it would be for you.
They are granted PERMISSION to enter by a resident who has called for a pick up or a delivery. You want to bet they call ahead?

You can call ahead too.

Or you can take photos from the public property AS IT STATES IN THE CERTIFICATIONS on the form 1004, etc., and use other sources of information to verify the rest (such as other MLS pictures). If there are NO pictures in MLS (such as with a private transactions) then you have those three choices I mentioned. Heck, in calling you may get invited in to do an interior inspection and get a new client out of it who wants to challenge an assessment, is thinking about refinancing, or needs a new independent valuation for tax purposes (or such).

If you can't be bothered to do the extra work than you probably shouldn't be charging higher fees due to complexity and all the extra hassle such higher end properties tend to be (which is why residential appraisers can often charge $1,000-$1,500+ for some of those higher end appraisals).