Why I Use MLS Photos

[Michigan CG]

.......As for gated communities there is not much else one can do if access is denied altogether and why should we push the matter?

How about talking to the Realtor involved in your transaction and ask them to meet you at the subject property. Have the Realtor talk to the property management stating that the Realtor will drive you to take comp photos of the recent sales in the neighborhood so that you may comply with lender requirements?

The Realtor has an obligation to their client and will make it happen. If you develop a working relationship with your local Realtors they will help you.

If your assignment is a refi the property owner can talk to the property management and explain what is needed to refinance the property which would include comp photos of comparable properties.

I know it wold not work in all communities, but it would work in a lot of communities.

 

[gregb]

What I am stating is that theft is theft and including (stealing) somebody else's intellectual property in something you are getting paid for could well be considered a violation of the law (aka, a crime).

Theft may or may not be theft... please cite statutory law that an appraiser dues paying member of MLS, is not allowed to use an MLS photo, whether copyrighted or not, so long as credit to the source is accorded in the appraisal. In some minds, an appraiser member of MLS is paying for use of MLS information, including the photos, so no theft per se or under the law.

 

[Delta85]

How about talking to the Realtor involved in your transaction and ask them to meet you at the subject property. Have the Realtor talk to the property management stating that the Realtor will drive you to take comp photos of the recent sales in the neighborhood so that you may comply with lender requirements?

I don't have a problem attempting that. However, is it likely? Will a realtor in your area drive you around taking comp photos for your report so you can comply with lender requirements? And if the comps are located in different gated communities around the area will the realtor do the leg work in contacting the other realtors and property management firms/secuirty guards and make the arrangements so that you can have access to view and photograph the comps?

Maybe it's me but that sounds extremely unlikley.

 

[Delta85]

I can see it now, paparazzi appraiser, arrested for taking a photo of a home in a gated development, lost her appraisal license, for violating the reasonable expectation of privacy during a trespass when the home owner's video cameras caught her car on private property with occupant using a spotting scope on a Nikon.

This was covered in a recent thread and apparently many appraisers believe we are well within our rights to be inside gated communities uninvited and on private property snapping photos as long as there is no sign posted saying not to do it or the homeowner has not previously told us not to do it.

I don't buy it and would not want to test how that court case might turn out.

 

[Delta85]

You inspect WHAT you see.
If you certified that you inspected all comps at least from the street then you need to make sure that is what you did.
If during that street inspection all you could see from the street is a wall, a gate, and a bunch of trees (and the view through the gate is more trees), then the inspection from the street is exactly that, wall, gate & trees as THAT is the property from the street.

USPAP does not require inspection of comps at all, that is a client requirement, most often straight from the certifications listed in the standard agreement (aka, the certs on the form used). By negotiating use of and agreeing to a particular form the standards and certs of that form become part of the assignment agreement. Nothing states you are not to go beyond what you can visually determine and that you can't examine records or MLS. Nor am I stating that MLS isn't a valid source. What I am stating is that theft is theft and including (stealing) somebody else's intellectual property in something you are getting paid for could well be considered a violation of the law (aka, a crime).




If the client requires a picture of the front of main dwelling for every property used then you have 3 choices:

1. drop the order (unacceptable assignment condition if you feel a property you can not get such from the street is necessary for the assignment)
2. violate the law (aka, either trespass or use the IP of somebody else without permission)
3. go that extra mile and try to gain access legally (call and request entrance, or call and request right to use the "MLS" picture in your report)

Guess which choice too many appraisers make?



I have walked the sidewalks or stood in the street and taken pictures with high zoom ...

Trespass is also a violation of the law and could have ramifications

I agree with most of your post. I don't think turning down jobs cause a comp is located up a long private wooded is reasonable or that appraisers use that option. Your due diligence means you made every attempt to comply with all requirements. In the case of comp photos/exterior inspections the use of MLS photos, MLS notes, and conversations with realtors can take the place of actually seeing the property IF seeing the property is impossible.

MLS photos may be copyrighted, true. In that case one should speak to their MLS and get feedback on the issue or look into other online photos. Bottom line though is explain, explain, explain in the report.

 

[Delta85]

I have walked the sidewalks or stood in the street and taken pictures with high zoom ...

Trespass is also a violation of the law and could have ramifications

There are some appraisers who advocate doing "whatever it takes" to see the property and get the photo. This includes going deep onto private property uninvited, piggy backing other cars into gated communities, and other forms of "weasling" into position to see and photograph the home.

 

[Delta85]

No they don't.
A delivery is not a legitimate reason[/i[] to trespass, and without permission it would almost certainly be as much trespassing for the delivery person as it would be for you.
They are granted PERMISSION to enter by a resident who has called for a pick up or a delivery. You want to bet they call ahead?

You can call ahead too.

Well that's just ridiculous. There is a huge difference between appraisers looking to get photos of homes for unrelated reports and FEDEX/UPS drivers making deliveries to residents who have requested those deliveries.

I'm not a FEDEX/UPS guy. I don't know how they work but I'm not sure they call ahead and get permission to enter a property. How would they know what is gated and what is not? These guys go deep onto private property everyday without calling ahead. They have a specific reason to be there whereas appraisers do not.

For gated communities I would think they arrive at the gate, let the guard know they have a delivery, and are either granted access or they leave the package with the guard to be picked up later.

Good luck calling ahead and contacting homeowners and getting permission to enter gated communities or to go deep onto their private property. How many people even have listed numbers anymore?

And what are the odds that a resident in a gated community, even if you are lucky enough to reach them, will be willing to do the leg work and contact gate security and make arrangements for you to get access so you can snap pictures of a home for a report that has nothing to do with that homeowner?

 

[NC Appraising]

Is not not a USPAP violiotion for trespassing onto private property by going into a gated project or trespassing on someones land.

By a USPAP violoation, I mean part of the ethics section of USPAP.



So the moral of the story is:

Turn down the assiegnment if you cannot inspect the comps from at least the street.

 

[NC Appraising]

FWIW,

On most lender orders, AMC orders, and in their internal guidelines, they say if the property is located in a gated community, private property, etc., that MLS photos are OK, hust take the pic of the gate or woods, driveway, etc.

FHA specificlly says this.


Just say it in your report what you did, and you will be OK.

 

[residentialguy]

So the moral of the story is:

Turn down the assiegnment if you cannot inspect the comps from at least the street.

No. I'll do what I can and explain what I did.