• Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premier online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

Forum Sponsor - a la mode

QuickSource provides a single-source solution to easily import, compare, and manage data from multiple, credible sources in every report. See what the next game-changer is really all about.

Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

I agree Bob. I find these posts by Randall to be very informative. I too am waiting to see what the next few months brings in the way of new tablets. I noticed that Dell will have the 11 Pro coming out which will have several processor and memory options. I wish all of these new items would get here because I'm itching to buy a new tablet.
 
Thanks for the kind words, guys! It is rewarding to hear that I am able to be of help...

My apologies for being mostly AWOL for the past few weeks. I know that I owe you some further info/thoughts. I've been out of the office on business most of this week and am just now getting back to my desk. Further, I've been involved in a very protracted personal "move" scenario for many years and it came to a head this past month. This item has been a huge distraction and I'm still dealing with a lot of unpacked boxes, etc. in my home office, where I try to spend "quiet time" to gather my info from trips, feedback, etc. and make sense of it all before sharing my thoughts. As I get older, I find that when I rush things, I often make mistakes (more than I normally do, LOL) and since I know that this is important stuff to most of you, I simply want to do the best I can.

Anyway, I arrived back in SA a little after midnight and am now back in my regular Apex office. I'll spend the day putting out brush fires and handling the inevitable line of folks who want to see me on something (usually just to get approval to spend some money, LOL) and I hope to begin posting again this weekend. I do have some new info to share but I need to sort through it all, separate the fact from fancy and try to start putting parameters around a series of posts that'll help the most. Keep in mind, though, that some big announcements are going live later this month (around the Win 8.1 "launch") and so things are a little fluid right now. Hence, I think I'll start with sort of "hitting the reset button" and recapping my overall thoughts on the two or three "levels" of devices which may make the most sense. My aim is to be less geeky but I'll absolutely need to reference some key terms for you to be familiar with, just so you'll have some basics to use in your own research/verification activities. Some of the info may be a little elementary for most of you but I need to keep in mind that we also have some new readers here so we want to help them out, too. I really need to start a blog... ;-)

For now... Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/
 
Just a quick FYI...

Had a chance to spend about 30 minutes with a new Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro yesterday and came away fairly impressed. This model is still more focused for the "consumer" (vs. Enterprise) market, but like the previous gen Yoga line, seems to be of superior build quality than most other devices. I still prefer the ThinkPad line and Tablets with a Wacom active digitizer, but this touchscreen device may appeal to a lot of users who want something that is more laptop than Tablet. That is, their tablet use is secondary, more occasional, than their laptop (banging on a keyboard) use. The 13.3" screen was razor sharp (3200 x 1800) and was fairly bright outdoors - it was overcast here yesterday, so we'll need to get one for a more thorough test including a bright sunny day, traversing a subject property, etc. the unit weighed just a smidgen over 3 lbs., quite a feat for a device like this, and felt lighter than it's measured weight would indicate. That's about a half pound lighter than the previous model and you can really tell. I am told it is a but thinner, and it felt that way, but I did not measure it. I can say that the Core i3 model was every bit as snappy as the previous gen Core i5 and the new Haswell Core i5 with 8GB and Win 8.1 absolutely blew the old one out of the water running Win 8.0. In the short time I used it, I obviously could not measure battery life but From using other Haswell samples, I would expect the typical (approx. avg.) 40% increase in run time over previous gen units! all with better real world performance.

I was given no word on an upcoming 11" model, but IF one does come along, I could see that model being very attractive for folks with something closer to a more balanced (50/50) Tablet/Laptop usage scenario. I still prefer the (still unreleased) ThinkPad variant, but a lot of folks might find the regular Yoga 2 Pro to their liking. I believe that the 4GB Core i5 model is just under $1K at Best Buy, but the better bang for the buck IMHO is the 8 GB Core i7 model for $1200, even though the i7 is overkill - the extra RAM is felt when running hoggy appraisal forms software. If you want to fine tune - i.e. CPU, RAM, SSD options, you'll need to shop on-line and not at a Big Box store...

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/
 
Just a quick FYI...

I believe that the 4GB Core i5 model is just under $1K at Best Buy, but the better bang for the buck IMHO is the 8 GB Core i7 model for $1200, even though the i7 is overkill - the extra RAM is felt when running hoggy appraisal forms software. If you want to fine tune - i.e. CPU, RAM, SSD options, you'll need to shop on-line and not at a Big Box store...

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/



Randall,

A you know, I have the Helix with the i7. When using my Appraisal Software, the computer lags, hesitates and is just slow. I only use it for appraising, and I do not even upload photos.

When using the same appraisal software on my 3 three year old desktop using a AMD, no issues at all.


Any suggestions or reasons why there is such a difference between the desktop and the helix?
 
I believe that every piece of hardware in my office right now has been recommended by Mr Garrett, from disto to camera to PC, screen, etc.. At the time purchased, I do not believe there was anything better based on price and technology. He is the first post I look at when I am in the market for new hardware for just about anything related to real estate appraisal and I am extremely satisfied with the units He has recommended. You will be hard pressed to find anyone with better knowledge who is willing to organize his opinions as he has here on this forum.. "Just my 2 cents", used as quote, Chris Wagoner
 
NCA,

I can't remember which software program you are using (getting old, LOL) but my general observation is that ALL of the "forms" programs are pretty hoggy and not well optimized. This is not to cast dispersions on products made by others - it is just an observation I make, being a developer myself. You see, the regular "domain" of the regular software has been on desktop systems "forever" and we developer types have had the luxury of just throwing more horsepower at the problem of our ever-increasing code bloat. That said, we (user) appraiser types don't tend to keep our systems very finely tuned nor cleaned out, either. The software we use on our machines may be hoggy by itself, but we users don't do much to help ourselves - we're all mostly pack rats, insisting on keeping EVERYTHING... sometimes multiple copies/dupes, for fear of losing something. Fair enough, that is a valid concern - understood... Still, the problem is there.

Anyway. most laptops just have more room for horsepower - bigger "pipes", etc. Tablets are sometimes even more compromised on raw performance. We all want longer battery life, so something has to give. It's like the old "Good, Fast, Cheap" conundrum...

Having said all that (and as a Helix owner, as well), I'd say that your issue would be best addressed by more RAM and some system maintenance. Unfortunately, you are out of luck with adding RAM to your Helix - it has what it has, and cannot be upgraded. Your HDD (SSD) is also "only" a SATA 3 drive. Your Core i7 CPU is a mobile variant, not the "full bore" variety. In short, it'll never have the breathing room of a "honker" desktop machine. The newer variants are better, but if one is expecting a mobile device to run like a killer desktop, have even halfway decent battery life and we insist on bogging the machine down with lots of stuff running, huge files (or lots of them) and using yet-to-be-optimized software, well... you get the picture.

My suggestion is to spend some time really thinking through how much stuff you NEED (vs. want) on the system, keep up pressure on your software folks to optimize for mobility, etc. Of course, I'd also look into upgrading to Win 8.1 (wait a week or so) and doing some system clean-up first. You should also see a slight performance boost when running on AC power if you have your configuration set to run full power on AC - they are typically set to run slower on battery and some systems even have the same or similar setting when on AC. The Helix (as you know) is one of the very few tablets that when docked has active cooling so you CAN run full speed without fear of overheating.

Now, if your system is uber-clean, etc., etc., etc., maybe I am missing something? Let me know if I can help!


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/
 
Chris,

Thanks for the kind words, but now my head is so swollen, I can't get out of my office... and I'm hungry! ;-)

I am still recommending that folks read up on stuff - use several sources, etc., but mainly WAIT just a few more weeks. Let the hype die down (there is always an abundance of this around an OS launch.) Also, unless you just absolutely NEED something before the end of the year, my sources say that we won't see the business class units really start rolling out until late this year or early next year.

I am setting up a few new machines today and tomorrow (desktop and mobile), so I'll have some advice based on my successes and failures in a few weeks. In the interim, if anyone has some specific questions, feel free to ask.


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/
 
I am thinking on an upgrade to my current system, Lenovo X220 tablet with dock and 30 inch Dell Monitor. The Lenovo has I7 160GB SSD and I think 8GIG ram. Probably overkill, but worked well. Is there anything out there yet with win8 and outdoor viewable screen that would fit this bill? Is HP still building business class? When I purchased this it was Fujitsu, HP, and Lenovo. I have two gripes, one is miniscule (sp?), in that the screen is small. I could use a bigger screen and that I am having a hardware problem which they will fix under warranty if I send it to them, but then I have no ability to do work. So, I need to upgrade.... Any thoughts?
 
Chris,

You have a Business Class device - still a good one, IMHO, but tech obviously marches on. There are suitable replacements available today, but unless you are approaching a dire need to upgrade, I recommending waiting for sometime closer to the end of this year or beginning of next year. There are a plethora of seemingly exciting devices being announced over the next few weeks, but if you dig a little deeper, you'll find that most of them are targeting the consumer space - a common thing this time of year, and especially so given the recent release of the improved Windows 8.1 OS. Most of the new devices which fit what I think you are looking for will not be announced/released until a little later. Still, I think you should go look at a few of the more respectable consumer devices so that you can get a feel for the overall type of new hardware coming. If you look at a few of the better ones for size/weight/feel, etc. and as a ThinkPad owner/user you can easily get a good idea on what a ThinkPad version might be like. For a moderate "spectrum", take a look at some of the newer (Haswell equipped versions of), say:
  • the ASUS Zenbook UX301 (or lower spec UX3012),
  • Samsung's awkwardly-named ATIV Book 9 Plus,
  • Lenovo's excellent X1 Carbon Touch
  • the Toshiba KIRAbook,
  • and even the aforementioned Yoga 2 Pro
All of these have decent 13.3" screens and are much thinner/lighter and better raw performers than your aging X220T. True, they are not true Tablets (possible semi-exception for the Yoga 2 Pro), but from what I have seen over the past few months, they represent a basic "form factor" that the various manufacturers are building things around.

Thinking about what I remember of our interaction which lead to your X220T (and awesome Dell 30" monitor) purchase, I have to wonder if the best OVERALL system for you might not be a newer "hybrid" like a "Transformer" type device - something that has a removable Tablet and beefier dock. Think (or imagine) a Haswell-equipped device like a Lenovo Helix with a larger screen, better performance, better weight distribution. Something like a Haswell-equipped Helix might just fit the bill, but you mentioned that you want a larger screen. Of course, the Yoga 2 Pro, sort of reminds me of a "semi-Helix" type device with respect to overall feel, but of course it does not support active pen. uild quality-wise it seems to sit between their regular consumer devices and the Business Class ThinkPads - sort of like a "Pro-sumer" line. Of course, it lacks some of the true Enterprise guts, but maybe that is not such a big concern (?) given how fast revisions hit. Anyway, if you want a true Business Class device (which I still prefer, overall), we'll just have to wait a bit.


Hope this helps for now!


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

Personal note - BTW, since moving to a new house, I have moved on from my Dell 30's to a single 4K monitor. I had to "settle" for a 31.5" model but I really wanted to wait for the 39" model. I have no problem with the larger dpi - I just wanted more screen real estate. The 31.5" 4K monitor is beautiful, and all, but for my purposes it is not a dramatic upgrade, especially given the price. I think that within 12 - 18 months, though, folks who appreciate a setu-up like yours and are looking to take the next step will find a larger 4K monitor to be worth considering.

/end/
 
Surface Pro 2 thoughts

For those who are following, or even thinking about the new MS Surface Pro 2 as a candidate for their next tablet, the link(s) below pretty much sums up what I have seen so far. "So far" means that, like the reviewer, I have only been briefly exposed to a pre-production unit, and I'll have a much better idea once my retail device arrives (in a few days) and I get a chance to spend some quality time with it in (my) real world usage scenarios.

Of note, this reviewer (Anand Lal Shimpi) is a well known and respected/responsible reviewer vs. a lot of the dweeb blogger types that I have historically lambasted. This person has the real engineering "chops" to test things, but more importantly, writes with a (mostly) objective, true reviewer style. His particular usage scenarios do not mimic our (appraiser) usage scenarios exactly, but they are a valid "benchmark" IMHO.

That said, from what I have experienced over the years, the typical appraiser can expect about a 30 minute longer "typical" battery life than his tests indicate and with our outdoor usage requirement, the screen is never good enough ;-) Additionally, from what I know that is "in the pipe", we could reasonably expect further OS tweaks (and, more importantly, typical appraiser software tweaks) that will serve to eek out another half hour or so.

Summarily, I (also) have found that the performance on a pre-production Surface Pro 2 to be stellar, and a noticeable improvement in every way over the original Surface Pro. This is due to a much better CPU/GPU and OS (Win 8.1 vs. Win 8.0.) What is not particularly highlighted in Anand's review is how much better the screen is on the Surface Pro 2. His review, like others, tends to focus on synthetic measurements - brightness, contrast, g2g response, etc. Of those, with a quality display, the contrast ratio is perhaps the biggest factor for us who use devices in mostly outdoor scenarios. I think that looking at measurements on things like color accuracy can really influence outdoor user types to think that the screen is sub-par. If you are an "imaging professional", then color accuracy is important, but we are not imaging professionals. True, we want to see things with reasonable accuracy, but the first order of business is to be able to see anything at all in our non-typical usage situations (non-typical for tablet users, in general, who mainly use devices like this indoors.) As I have said many times before, it doesn't matter how accurate the colors are if you can't easily see it outdoors. ("Hard to use a device if you cant read the screen.") Anyway, the Surface Pro 2 screen is NOT one that is rated as "indoor/outdoor" but it IS one that performs adequately - arguably better than most with our usage scenarios. That said, I still recommend a quality anti-glare screen protector (film) to improve the situation. They run about $25 and are good for about six months, given our environmental conditions.

FWIW, I personally ordered a model like the one he reviewed - 8 GB of RAM, 256 GB SSD - as I felt that this was the "sweet spot" for my purposes. My review unit had 512 GB of storage, but I felt that this was overkill for me. I further agree with his reasoning why we won't see a more significant improvement in the Surface (and other, similar devices) line until the next CPU implementation ("Broadwell" vs. current "Haswell") and while I would have liked for MS (and others) to configure things differently for this round, I understand their decisions from an engineering and manufacturing & marketing perspective.

Summary page: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7440/microsoft-surface-pro-2-review/5

(For those wanting to read more, the full review: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7440/microsoft-surface-pro-2-review)

Finally, I am still not convinced that the Surface Pro 2 is THE best device for most appraisers. There are (or very soon will be) Tablets by a few other players that may likely fit YOUR usage scenarios better. The Surface Pro 2 is mainly designed as an "executive class" device, best used indoors by folks who move from conference to conference, or similar, vs. while traversing the subject property or using it in your lap. For our "typical" purposes, the "Transformer" type (i.e. newer, Haswell class Helix-type) may be a better fir for most of you. We'll soon see devices from Lenovo, Dell and even two others I know of, which may be a better fit for most of you. Some of these are already announced, some are days away.

Am I recommending that you skip the Surface Pro 2? Not at all - I am just saying that it is not the only device worthy of considering, and I believe that you should look at a wider gamut of devices before making a purchase. Also, remember that this device is closer to a "desktop replacement" class device, and many of you may be better served by a lighter weight, less expensive device (Bay Trail or lower-spec Core i3 device) used as a "companion" device rather than one which satisfies what is known generically as a "single asset" device. YMMV, and you should shop wisely - use your own criteria for making a decision. Read reviews, but be true to your appraiser roots and take ad-type reviews with a large grain of salt.

Hope this helps! I'll post more info, pictures, etc. within a couple of weeks. I hope to be able to include some side-by-side comparison shots when enough "full retail" devices are in and we have a bright, sunny day.


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/
 
Find a Real Estate Appraiser - Enter Zip Code

Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at
AppraiserSites.com
Back
Top