Windows Tablets For Fieldwork

[Randall Garrett]

K,

I understand your thoughts and I've been known to recommend waiting for sweet spots, myself ;-). IF AMD delivers, and manufacturers pick up their offerings, that will simply give appraisers more choices, which is a good thing IMHO.


For the majority of the rest of you,

FWIW, I am still not able to post the specifics of a few devices I am personally aware of, but I suspect that will change shortly as I am starting to pick up reports by others which are mentioning a few. While I get to see a few devices, my "ranking" is very low on the Totem Pole. Manufacturers feed bloggers with wide readerships before more factually-focused people like me. Their thought is to drive sales, so this is understandable. My focus continues to be for appraiser/inspector types as this "category" represents our main user base. It is my observation that most appraisers would find the devices meant for "Enterprise" (vs. "consumers") to be a better fit as they usually offer a little tougher construction, available (and inexpensive) drop protection warranties, etc. at the expense of a bit of sexiness. I further realize that not everyone shares this view and that many (most?) will gravitate to the lower cost, flashier consumer grade devices. I don't sell this stuff, and my intent is just to educate and give the readers some "balance" to the hype in the hope that it allows you to make better choices. Generally speaking, I believe that spending (say) and additional 10% on the few "Enterprise" type devices will be the better buy for most appraisers. YMMV... I also make this same recommendation on point & shoot cameras - the ruggedized "sports" type cameras (drop, water, dust, etc. protection) are fewer and cost a bit more, but they simply last longer if you are routinely doing things like most of you do on a daily basis. We're not talking "fully hardened, military grade" stuff here, just "business rugged."

Anyway, here is a link to a blurb/listing of a few devices. I don't know how the author is able to publish this today - I assume his "numbers" grant him more leeway. That said, a few of the specific devices I am aware of are not listed and some of the info is "TBA" and spotty (understood.). Nevertheless, you may find this helpful in starting to get a picture of the type/range of things coming to market in the coming weeks. I believe that once more of the "business rugged" devices are announced, the picture will be better rounded. I expect a "flood" of info to be available in the time frame surrounding the Windows 8.1 General Availability events. There will also be more Android device announcements as that community will naturally want to bleed some attention away from Windows 8.1 and toward their own wares. This is natural and understood. I urge those of you who are serious in their need/desire to get a new mobile device to resist the "shiny object" syndrome and take a lot of the "blogger hype" with a grain of salt - recognize that most of these folks have not even used the device they are writing about, nor do they have much of a clue as to what your needs are - they are mainly writing (repeating) what the marketing folks have fed them and many times projecting their views of what THEY want/need personally, and trying to get something published ASAP so their article gets attention early and often (money for them.). Treat a lot of this info much like you would a Realtors listing info vs. your own personal inspection data.

This author is a well known and reliable source. Most who know or follow him know him to be pretty neutral in his coverage of MS items. He is an "equal opportunity critic" ;-). Good (beginning) info here. More pertinent (IMHO) info to come...
http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/fall-2013-windows-tablet-preview


Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/

 

[kakarotto]

K,

I understand your thoughts and I've been known to recommend waiting for sweet spots, myself ;-). IF AMD delivers, and manufacturers pick up their offerings, that will simply give appraisers more choices, which is a good thing IMHO.


For the majority of the rest of you,

FWIW, I am still not able to post the specifics of a few devices I am personally aware of, but I suspect that will change shortly as I am starting to pick up reports by others which are mentioning a few. While I get to see a few devices, my "ranking" is very low on the Totem Pole. Manufacturers feed bloggers with wide readerships before more factually-focused people like me. Their thought is to drive sales, so this is understandable. My focus continues to be for appraiser/inspector types as this "category" represents our main user base. It is my observation that most appraisers would find the devices meant for "Enterprise" (vs. "consumers") to be a better fit as they usually offer a little tougher construction, available (and inexpensive) drop protection warranties, etc. at the expense of a bit of sexiness. I further realize that not everyone shares this view and that many (most?) will gravitate to the lower cost, flashier consumer grade devices. I don't sell this stuff, and my intent is just to educate and give the readers some "balance" to the hype in the hope that it allows you to make better choices. Generally speaking, I believe that spending (say) and additional 10% on the few "Enterprise" type devices will be the better buy for most appraisers. YMMV... I also make this same recommendation on point & shoot cameras - the ruggedized "sports" type cameras (drop, water, dust, etc. protection) are fewer and cost a bit more, but they simply last longer if you are routinely doing things like most of you do on a daily basis. We're not talking "fully hardened, military grade" stuff here, just "business rugged."

Anyway, here is a link to a blurb/listing of a few devices. I don't know how the author is able to publish this today - I assume his "numbers" grant him more leeway. That said, a few of the specific devices I am aware of are not listed and some of the info is "TBA" and spotty (understood.). Nevertheless, you may find this helpful in starting to get a picture of the type/range of things coming to market in the coming weeks. I believe that once more of the "business rugged" devices are announced, the picture will be better rounded. I expect a "flood" of info to be available in the time frame surrounding the Windows 8.1 General Availability events. There will also be more Android device announcements as that community will naturally want to bleed some attention away from Windows 8.1 and toward their own wares. This is natural and understood. I urge those of you who are serious in their need/desire to get a new mobile device to resist the "shiny object" syndrome and take a lot of the "blogger hype" with a grain of salt - recognize that most of these folks have not even used the device they are writing about, nor do they have much of a clue as to what your needs are - they are mainly writing (repeating) what the marketing folks have fed them and many times projecting their views of what THEY want/need personally, and trying to get something published ASAP so their article gets attention early and often (money for them.). Treat a lot of this info much like you would a Realtors listing info vs. your own personal inspection data.

This author is a well known and reliable source. Most who know or follow him know him to be pretty neutral in his coverage of MS items. He is an "equal opportunity critic" ;-). Good (beginning) info here. More pertinent (IMHO) info to come...
http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/fall-2013-windows-tablet-preview


Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

/end/

the nokia tablet and the surface 2 are running the rt versions of windows and should not be considered for purchase. that being said, on that list, the only thing i see worth getting is the surface pro 2, due to the fact that the other models are severely handicapped by storage space. i wouldn't want my appraisal software to be installed on a microsd card and rely on that, personally. the larger the storage capacity, the greater the longevity of the storage and reliability. and the author is puzzled by the fact that the surface 2 and the surface pro 2 are identical form factors to the original. this is because ms wants surface pro users to be able to use existing peripherals. ms is also going to be releasing a desktop dock for the surface pro tablets, which means you can have a keyboard, mouse, and monitor hooked up at home or the office, and drop your tablet in to continue your work. the surface pro had terrible battery life, but the pro 2 has the haswell refresh, so we'll see how real world battery life is when this is actually released. also, if you can live with charging your device, expect the original surface pro to receive a price drop upon the release of the pro 2

 

[kakarotto]

also, considering that manufactures have been racing to the bottom on price, i can say with confidence that we will see a plethora of amd devices to come. amd processors have historically been cheaper than intel processors, and this will allow manufactures a greater profit margin.

 

[Randall Garrett]

K,

You clearly believe that the best (only?) mobile solution leans toward a "single asset" type device (aka desktop replacement caliber) but many will prefer a "companion" device to better fit their needs. The smaller, lighter devices with lower specs will conveniently also be less expensive

The real world battery life of the Surface devices with a Haswell CPU are already known, subject to getting the final OS bits (post RTM) and have just not been published to date. Folks can expect this data within a month. If one really needs to project expected battery life for the Surface Pro 2, it is pretty simple to get a reasonably accurate estimate based on other similar Ivy Bridge-to-Haswell device updates already out. It is mainly just a function of CPU draw vs. battery capacity with a variable for actual workload scenarios.

I believe that your characterization of Paul being "confused" is inaccurate. He is more familiar with this situation than a regular consumer. His list is partial per being bound by information embargoes and NDA restrictions. He mentions a few known devices, but the list will grow in the coming quarter to include some devices that some may (should) find to be more compelling for a typical appraiser usage scenario (IMHO.)

FWIW, there are already previous generation "Atom" devices that ship with Windows 8 pro installed. I use them all the time. We'll see the same scenario with Bay Trail devices. But all this geek talk about most of this stuff and speculation based on incomplete info is really not the point here, and can arguably be misleading or confusing to the average potential user. The main point I was trying to emphasize is that the next generation of "Atom" chips allow some welcome improvements to performance at a cost below "full Core i5/i7" devices. The previous generation Atoms were simply hamstrung by dated design parameters which are greatly addressed with this next generation. From my own testing, my personal observation was that the Clover Trail devices performed adequately, given their costs and components - the MAIN thing holding them back from more widespread use by appraisers was the bloated nature of current appraisal software. As the OS improves and adoption rises, it is reasonable to expect that the players in the appraisal software arena will turn more of their attention to this aspect of their offerings. Just like the different devices vary in their build and component qualities, some software companies will have better implementations than others - nothing new there ;-)

Please let me know when you have had some time to put a Temash device through its paces. We'll all want to avail ourselves of this information so we can make better choices. I have not personally seen even an engineering sample, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there (?) - just that I haven't seen/used one, nor do I know a single reliable, objective tech/user who has used one. Hence, I would be unable to do anything but speculate what AMD might deliver based on published specs. I try to stay away from speculation in my posts, and focus on things based on actual use in conditions approaching real world (appraiser) scenarios.


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

 

[Randall Garrett]

Here is a little more info that may be of interest on one of the devices listed earlier. Note that this particular device represents the lower end and is not representative of the types coming which I believe will suit most readers better. This is a Bay Trail device that will reportedly run about $350 with keyboard dock (!) I (personally and professionally) believe that the units with 4 GB of RAM will suit most of you better. And for those with deteriorating eyesight (like me), you may prefer the larger 11.6" or larger screened devices, some with higher resolution. Nevertheless, this is a pretty good description of what you can expect in a month or so for $350...

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7320/asus-transformer-book-t100-atom-z3740-inside

Hope this helps!


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

 

[kakarotto]

K,

You clearly believe that the best (only?) mobile solution leans toward a "single asset" type device (aka desktop replacement caliber) but many will prefer a "companion" device to better fit their needs. The smaller, lighter devices with lower specs will conveniently also be less expensive

The real world battery life of the Surface devices with a Haswell CPU are already known, subject to getting the final OS bits (post RTM) and have just not been published to date. Folks can expect this data within a month. If one really needs to project expected battery life for the Surface Pro 2, it is pretty simple to get a reasonably accurate estimate based on other similar Ivy Bridge-to-Haswell device updates already out. It is mainly just a function of CPU draw vs. battery capacity with a variable for actual workload scenarios.

I believe that your characterization of Paul being "confused" is inaccurate. He is more familiar with this situation than a regular consumer. His list is partial per being bound by information embargoes and NDA restrictions. He mentions a few known devices, but the list will grow in the coming quarter to include some devices that some may (should) find to be more compelling for a typical appraiser usage scenario (IMHO.)

FWIW, there are already previous generation "Atom" devices that ship with Windows 8 pro installed. I use them all the time. We'll see the same scenario with Bay Trail devices. But all this geek talk about most of this stuff and speculation based on incomplete info is really not the point here, and can arguably be misleading or confusing to the average potential user. The main point I was trying to emphasize is that the next generation of "Atom" chips allow some welcome improvements to performance at a cost below "full Core i5/i7" devices. The previous generation Atoms were simply hamstrung by dated design parameters which are greatly addressed with this next generation. From my own testing, my personal observation was that the Clover Trail devices performed adequately, given their costs and components - the MAIN thing holding them back from more widespread use by appraisers was the bloated nature of current appraisal software. As the OS improves and adoption rises, it is reasonable to expect that the players in the appraisal software arena will turn more of their attention to this aspect of their offerings. Just like the different devices vary in their build and component qualities, some software companies will have better implementations than others - nothing new there ;-)

Please let me know when you have had some time to put a Temash device through its paces. We'll all want to avail ourselves of this information so we can make better choices. I have not personally seen even an engineering sample, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there (?) - just that I haven't seen/used one, nor do I know a single reliable, objective tech/user who has used one. Hence, I would be unable to do anything but speculate what AMD might deliver based on published specs. I try to stay away from speculation in my posts, and focus on things based on actual use in conditions approaching real world (appraiser) scenarios.


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
*Apex Software*

im pretty sure that he is confused. im paraphrasing because i haven't revisited the article i read a while back, but he was wondering why the pro2 has an identical form factor as the pro 1. i simply stated that it was for backwards compatability for exisiting peripherals, and so that the previous pro could be compatible with soon to be released peripherals. the fact of the matter is, even with bay trail, the emmc is going to have poor i/o performance. you may test these devices at a desk, but we are the appraisers that have to use these devices out on the field everyday. yes some appraisers may opt for a companion device with the alluring low price point. however, i think when it comes down to it, MOST appraisers would love to have a single device, that they don't have to sync OTA. i ask any other appraiser to chime in. ipad users, android tablet users, etc. who wouldn't want to start a report at home/office, pick up the computer (tablet), take it out on the field, do the inspection on that tablet, and then bring it back home/office and click it back into the desktop dock. i know that i have personally lost data during the syncing process on my inspection files. however, luckily for me, i have a backround in it, and i was able to recover the data locally. when you have a single device, you have less chance of something getting screwed up. remember playing telephone as a child? the person on the end always said something wild, because the message got diluted.

ALSO, i iterate this because as an appraiser, no one like data loss. the smaller your storage space, the more wear and tear you put on said storage space. 32gb is not acceptable imo to use as a daily driver for work. 128gb is the minimum. this isn't a product that people are going to be buying every year. i personally know appraisers that are using computers that are 4-5 years old. you as an IT professional should not be recommending someone to use a recreational tablet for workuse every single day. as an IT professional you should know how flash storage works, and you know that the smaller the storage space the shorter the lifespan. every flash cell degrades with use. the less you have, the quicker the volume degrades. an appraiser would be adding, deleting, adding, deleting files everyday with a 32gb flash storage device. if you're using it to check emails, watch netflix, surf the web, 32gb is more than enough. cloud storage simply isn't an option for most people in the field. that is why i would recommend a surface pro, a surface pro 2, or a venue pro 11 (with a core i3 or i5) only.

 

[Randall Garrett]

K,

Thanks for lecturing me on what I should or should not recommend ;-) I believe my track record speaks for itself - I tend to recommend "Enterprise" or "Business" class devices, not the consumer-oriented devices. Further, if you will actually read what I wrote, I did not suggest that the latest linked device would be a device I would recommend for appraisers - it was linked solely as an example of what folks can expect for the $350 (retail) mark. I believe I was clear on that...

I've continually opined that what we'll likely see in the coming weeks are devices in the $500+ mark which are more suitable. I believe that the sweet spot will settle down to the $650 - under $1K range. Of course, there will be users who get the lowest cost device and those who feel that they have to over-spec and end up in the $1K - $2K range... to each, their own.

On the eMMC storage item, I have repeatedly pointed that out, but in reality, the historical bottleneck has not been the eMMC storage so much as it has been the effect of limited RAM while trying to use bloated, un-optimized software. Sure, I'd like to see a faster disk subsystem protocol, but I can live with eMMC on a "companion class" device. The actual throughput on Bay Trail devices IS faster than it was on Clover Trail - at least on the tests I ran on pre-release and engineering sample devices - but in the end, this little aspect on THIS type device is mostly a relatively minor item. It's really pretty simple - if you want a lower cost, companion-type device, the next gen devices will satisfy more than the previous generation and the prices will be similar or lower. If your needs are more aligned with a "full PC", then one will be well served by a Haswell equipped device. And, please, stop with the getting your feather ruffled because I am not recommending AMD architecture/CPUs at this point. I have said that IF and WHEN I actually SEE and USE some of the devices with their stuff, I'll give them a fair shake. I am agnostic on that front, but I put less faith in promises by a manufacturer and more in "proof in the pudding" and I believe this is what most readers here appreciate - someone with an actual real appraisal background who is also a "professional IT-related Industry" person and who spend their own personal time and money to give feedback on items that I have personally had some "drive time" with. I try to put new devices (announced and unannounced) devices though a short "real world" series of tests so that those who don't have the time nor the ability to actually use this stuff can get some perspective, in hopes that they will be better armed to make smarter decisions with their hard-earned money.

Finally, I think most folks would appreciate you discontinuing your practice of quoting the entirety of my (already rather lengthy) posts. It really makes things harder to read, and results in being a disservice to the readers IMHO. I mean this to be constructive criticism, not personal.


Regards,

-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

/end/

 

[Bill S]

Hey Randall, I really appreciate all of the advice you post. Do you have information on new products coming up?

 

[JSmith43]

The $350 scenario reminds me of cheap/giveaway ink jet printers. In the long run, the ink price kills you.

A MacBook Air with 8GB Ram & 256GB Flash memory will run W 7 or 8 really well within Parallels 9. Battery life will astound you. Battery life will be significantly enhanced beyond astounding, when OSX Mavericks is released (shortly).

OK, this will cost +/- $1,450. for top shelf 11" plus an OEM or better install of 64 bit W7 or 8. B & H Photo includes Parallels 9 if you select it as a "free gift" at check out.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/983531-REG/Apple_Z0NY_MD7121_MACBK_AIR_i7_1_7g_8GB_256GB_SSD_11_.html

Now you will have the advantage of running W7 or 8 in a Virtual Machine environment. The VM is a flat file that can be backed up to an external USB 3.0 HD, preferably with a SATA 3 chip set. You can back up a 100 GB virtual machine in about 5 minutes if you use an external SSD drive in a USB 3 enclosure, even faster with a Thunderbolt connected SSD. That is the whole file, not an incremental back-up. Throw the tiny HD in a fire safe. If something catastrophic happens-your computer is damaged or stolen you just plug the drive into any PC that can run Parallels or VMware Fusion & import the image to the VM. All settings, all data, all everything is back on line in about 5 minutes.

Say your main machine is OK (and set up with Parallels or Fusion installed). Then your down time is about 30 seconds, the time to get the external HD & plug it in.

Cheap is OK, but the not so cheap may provide the best solution. It is a penny wise pound foolish argument. Hopefully, no one will do this because I suggested it But, if none of this makes you uncomfortable, you might want to go for it.

Myself, I take a MacBook Pro 13" with internet connection (Clear mobile hot spot) when I think I may have to check MLS on the fly. But I'll be darned if I want to carry more than I already do on an inspection just to sketch something that I can do on Pencil & Paper in the snow or with an upside down clip board in the rain.

I don't need no stink-en tablet

 

[Randall Garrett]

Bill S,

Glad I can be of help. I remind all that these are MY thoughts based on the factors I have outlined many times before. They are meant to help you narrow things down, "separate the wheat from the chaff", possibly eliminate some confusion (despite my poor writing skills, LOL.) At the end of the day, YOU have to make your own decision about what works best for you. I just hope you are a little better armed with info when you do this and have something at hand to counter-balance the marketing hype. I don't recall ever reading a manufacturer's description of their device where they point out the "not so great" features, LOL.

I do not have that data compiled and boiled down to a more readable form yet. This is mainly MY fault and less an issue with NDA stuff, although that HAS been an issue... That said, I don't see myself getting around to putting together the info before another 2 weeks. I'm out most of next week (boring business trip) and things always get stacked up on either side of a trip.

I strongly recommend that those who are anxious to purchase something continue to wait for about the 3rd week in October to get serious about looking at new gear. This will give the manufacturers a change to announce their new devices around the General Availability date for Windows 8.1 and for (good and not so good) reviewers to get their reviews published. As much as I rag on the hoard of "dweeb blogger/reviewers", at least even the bad ones generally have decent pictures, sometimes in-hand videos, etc. Even IF the individual reviewer is tilted away from a work scenario like your own, some of their observations have relevance if you just try to separate fact from fancy/bias, etc.

My personal (and professional) opinion is that the most interesting devices will not be shipping for several weeks after that time anyway. You know I lean toward "business class" devices for their superior, less-frills construction and a few "under the hood" items. I feel that an approx. 10% - 15% premium over the lesser devices is well worth it, especially on the lower end "companion" type devices. Some will surely get their devices based on the emotions around announcements/availability in October, but the smart money will resist an urge and let more devices come out, be tested, etc. Knowing there is pent-up demand and that some figure that a consumer-oriented device is good enough (despite my recommendations), I'll try to put some of these devices in the matrix and give you my thoughts on them. I am reluctant to make a solid recommendation based on paper specs and without actually holding/using a particular device myself (or, secondarily, based on reviews by trusted users), but I may throw in a "looks good on paper" type class. Caveat emptor factors apply here...


Regards,


-Randall Garrett-
..Apex Software..

PS - FWIW, I agree with (how I read) JSmith43's comments. The MBA is a well made device. I have reservations on certain aspects when compared to other devices out now & soon, and it is not a Tablet type device (the topic in play here) but it IS a well made device and it performs great. Without getting into "comparing plumage" (Mac vs. PC), I think what he says closely mirrors my own observations on paying a little more for a better built device will not only bring you pleasure in a finely crafted device, but also likely last you longer. I am NOT a fan of running Win 7 on mobile devices and much prefer Win 8 (W8.1 is much better) on a tablet where you have touch and/or pen capabilities (assuming, of course, that your software actually uses these capabilities effectively - YMMV there, LOL) His comments on an effective safeguard for your data while out and about are valid and should be considered. We differ on the actual tools/methods, but the main point is to take steps to protect your data!

/end/