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Pretty sharp case.
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Windows Tablets For Fieldwork
- Thread starter brbkr
- Start date
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
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- Texas
Minor update on Surface Go initial impressions. Overall, I am pretty impressed with the device for what it is - an affordable, modest-spec Windows 10 Tablet PC. As I've pointed out on previous devices in a similar size and price range, this is intended to be a "companion class" device which is capable of running "full Windows" apps when necessary. Overall, as compared to earlier low-end devices in years past, the build quality and overall performance is better on the Surface Go than it was on some of the earlier non-Pro Surface devices (Lenovo & HP 10" devices, etc.) As you may recall, I purchased the more modest version with 4 GB of RAM and 64 GB of eMMC storage as a test device. When running our own MobileSkietch 10, I am very satisfied with the performance, even when running some unfinished/un-optimized test features on an unreleased version. (Yes, I will finally release info on this next month.) Note that this device is running Windows 10S, which basically means it is limited to running MS "Store" apps. I am using my own software to test since it is the only "appraisal-specific" software I have at my disposal to test with. Of course, there are many more "mainstream" apps (MS Word, Excel, etc., etc., etc.) that are available, but when using my own software, I can have embedded "stress/diagnostic" elements to measure how things are being handled. Anyway, I fully realize that most of you will be wanting to run "Full Windows" software on tablets, so earlier this week I "splurged" and bought the $549 version with 8 GB of RAM and 2128 GB of SSD (vs. the slower eMMC memory on the other device.) Your should note that with the Surface Go, you can "unlock" the full Windows 10 OS/functionality for free if you desire. I have chosen not to do so on the baseline device but I wanted to that on the 8GB/128GB SSD version. In a perfect world, I would have one of each running Windows 10S and "full Windows 10" but for now, I have chosen to have just one of each and so I am only able to report some basic "seat of the pants" observations...
Subject to some further testing and cooperative feedback with one of our Mass Appraisal partners, I feel that for their needs, the baseline device is the beat bang for the buck because their proprietary app is a "Windows Store" app. However...
For most of those here who (for whatever reason) feel they need/want to run "Full Windows" applications, my gut feel is that the $150 upcharge for the 8 GB/128GB version is the better buy. Basically, Brian is reporting to me that the $549 version running "Full Windows" feels just a bit snappier. Again, note that he is noticing this on un-optimized features added to MS10, but to be fair, this sort of represents other, more bloated software when run on a low-end device IMHO. This is an unscientific test, of course, and just my "gut feel" based on input from someone I trust (Brian.) So, basically, the more beefy $549 version makes up for the added overhead of the "full OS" and he is telling me that he is not noticing any performance issues running the "full Apex v7" on the $549 version. Note that he is testing with 'regular" sketches and not using some of our ridiculously complex "stress check" sketches (i.e. entire apartment complexes with parking sidewalks, etc. We use these real-world files to optimize things where possible.)
So, what does this mean for most of the readers here? My gut feel is that IF you are in need of a "companion-class" Windows 10 Tablet PC, the 8 GB/ 128 GB version (currently $549 retail) is probably the better buy for most of you. For MY purposes, the upcoming version with 4G LTE is the one to get, but if your don't really need internet connectivity in the field today, the current versions work just fine. I recognize that I have long been comfortable with various "tethering" tactics with the several phones I own (now and in the past), so this view represents something outside the norm. So, I am suggesting that my guess is that IF you want "seamless/ubiquitous" Internet connection, the upcoming device with 4G LTE will be the one to wait for. Geeks who like to tinker can "tether" now and be happy, and those who feel they want/need more horsepower can get the Surface Pro with Core i5and built-in 4G LTE now, but really, for most of you, I'd like to suggest that the smaller, less costly Surface Go is worthy of your consideration as a companion device. I am well pleased that someone (MS in this case) has delivered an ergonomically-friendly device that is fan-less (benefits discussed ad-nauseum in the past) 10" device (almost "Goldilocks" size?) that is garnering some support for meaningful peripherals (cases, straps, docks, etc.) and hardware/software support. You can check in earlier threads that I was not a big fan of the Surface/Surface Pro for our appraisers in it's first iterations (check my comments back then regarding the issues with devices with fans for most appraiser use-case scenarios), but things have matured and for the most part, I'm pretty pleased with this round. If you absolutely need more horsepower, I understand (I am a horsepower-loving geek). and the current Core i5 fan-less is a great device, but for many of you the Surface Go may just fit the bill.
To be continued... Let me know if you have any questions, here of via PM.
-Randall Garrett-
/end/
Subject to some further testing and cooperative feedback with one of our Mass Appraisal partners, I feel that for their needs, the baseline device is the beat bang for the buck because their proprietary app is a "Windows Store" app. However...
For most of those here who (for whatever reason) feel they need/want to run "Full Windows" applications, my gut feel is that the $150 upcharge for the 8 GB/128GB version is the better buy. Basically, Brian is reporting to me that the $549 version running "Full Windows" feels just a bit snappier. Again, note that he is noticing this on un-optimized features added to MS10, but to be fair, this sort of represents other, more bloated software when run on a low-end device IMHO. This is an unscientific test, of course, and just my "gut feel" based on input from someone I trust (Brian.) So, basically, the more beefy $549 version makes up for the added overhead of the "full OS" and he is telling me that he is not noticing any performance issues running the "full Apex v7" on the $549 version. Note that he is testing with 'regular" sketches and not using some of our ridiculously complex "stress check" sketches (i.e. entire apartment complexes with parking sidewalks, etc. We use these real-world files to optimize things where possible.)
So, what does this mean for most of the readers here? My gut feel is that IF you are in need of a "companion-class" Windows 10 Tablet PC, the 8 GB/ 128 GB version (currently $549 retail) is probably the better buy for most of you. For MY purposes, the upcoming version with 4G LTE is the one to get, but if your don't really need internet connectivity in the field today, the current versions work just fine. I recognize that I have long been comfortable with various "tethering" tactics with the several phones I own (now and in the past), so this view represents something outside the norm. So, I am suggesting that my guess is that IF you want "seamless/ubiquitous" Internet connection, the upcoming device with 4G LTE will be the one to wait for. Geeks who like to tinker can "tether" now and be happy, and those who feel they want/need more horsepower can get the Surface Pro with Core i5and built-in 4G LTE now, but really, for most of you, I'd like to suggest that the smaller, less costly Surface Go is worthy of your consideration as a companion device. I am well pleased that someone (MS in this case) has delivered an ergonomically-friendly device that is fan-less (benefits discussed ad-nauseum in the past) 10" device (almost "Goldilocks" size?) that is garnering some support for meaningful peripherals (cases, straps, docks, etc.) and hardware/software support. You can check in earlier threads that I was not a big fan of the Surface/Surface Pro for our appraisers in it's first iterations (check my comments back then regarding the issues with devices with fans for most appraiser use-case scenarios), but things have matured and for the most part, I'm pretty pleased with this round. If you absolutely need more horsepower, I understand (I am a horsepower-loving geek). and the current Core i5 fan-less is a great device, but for many of you the Surface Go may just fit the bill.
To be continued... Let me know if you have any questions, here of via PM.
-Randall Garrett-
/end/
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
For those who like the size of the Surface Pro, I saw that Best Buy has the Core M3 w/4 GB RAM and 128 GB SSD for $549 reportedly today only. I don't know that you'll get better performance on this device than the comparably priced Surface Go for the same price, but you'll get a larger (12.3" vs. 10") screen, etc. Of course it is a little over 1/2 lb. heavier, too (1.69 lb. vs. 1.15 lb.)
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/micros...e-latest-model-silver/5855917.p?skuId=5855917
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
/end/
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/micros...e-latest-model-silver/5855917.p?skuId=5855917
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
/end/
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
Keeping my eyes peeled for this one... Currently not available here yet... Lenovo has released their IdeaPad D330 overseas. We'll see if/when they bring it (or a variation) here. I expect they will as it should compete nicely in the landscape of affordable tablets just now emerging here.
Basic specs are:
Price (converted) ~$400 to ~$580
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Basic specs are:
- 10.1" screen @ 1920 x 1200 (16:10)
- Detachable Keyboard base
- Intel "Gemini Lake" low-power CPU - Celeron N4000 up to a Pentium N5000
- 4 GB RAM - 8 GB RAM
- 64 GB - 126 GB Storage + microSDXC card slot
- 2 @ USB 2.0 Type A + 1 @ USB 3.1 Type C
Price (converted) ~$400 to ~$580
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
Just a quick "FYI" thing...
Had a chance today to use a Surface Pro 6 today for a little while. I was able to use both a Core i5 and Core i7 model. My general impressions was that they are both definitely faster than the previous models. I have no way of confirming the claim that they are 67 % faster than before, but the new Core i5 model was definitely faster than the previous Core i7 model. I could not really tell any difference in using light weight applications like Av7 (not to mention a featherweight like MS 10), and since these were "store demo stock" - not even "loaners -, there was no way I could load up any other appraisal programs, so I had to use some provides test suites to get my seat-of-the-pants feel. I am quite impressed with the overall performance of the Core i5, especially for a fan=less device and I still think this is the best bang for the buck model of Surface Pro.
Another thing I noticed was that the new screen is definitely brighter and seems easier to read in direct sunlight. I am guessing at this point that there are internal anti-reflective and contrast elements at play here which work with the additional brightness... I am still a person who favors an anti-glare or anti-reflective screen protector, but with this new device, we're getting to where this is perhaps not necessary and just something of a personal choice (?) Anyway, the screen is definitely better, and keep in mind - the Surface Pro screen was already one of the very best in the first place.
I'll need to check the specs more closely, but the devices themselves just feel better in the hand, too. I'm not sure if it is the softer contours or that the internals are rearranges a little for better balance, but it just feels better to me. Could be just "that new car smell" factor at work, too... ;-)
The pen feels smoother, but that is not really something that should affect regular appraisal/sketching/note taking things, but it made me happy that we're investing some time on some "pen" enhancements in some products. I think I should keep tweaking these things but I'll be pushing a release with them in there soon anyway.
I gotta figure that we should see improved battery life in these models, but really, they already have sufficient battery life to most inspection schedules. That said, better battery life is always a good thing. I'll have more to add on that front later.
So, overall, IF you are in the market for this class of device and you were holding out to see what was coming, I believe you should take a look at the newest Core i5 model. For most of our mainstream users, I am finding that the upper end ($549) Surface Go 10" model is more the adequate for a companion device, but if you just want/need a larger, more powerful tablet, the Surface Pro 6 is worthy of consideration. Of course, the new pricing leaves open the possibility to score last year's model (just "Surface Pro") or the SP4 at some deep discount, too...
I aim to put together some more comprehensive tests soon, but I'll want to order the exact model I want to use and then put it into some field trials and take photos, etc. Let me know if you have any specific questions or items you want me to cover...
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Had a chance today to use a Surface Pro 6 today for a little while. I was able to use both a Core i5 and Core i7 model. My general impressions was that they are both definitely faster than the previous models. I have no way of confirming the claim that they are 67 % faster than before, but the new Core i5 model was definitely faster than the previous Core i7 model. I could not really tell any difference in using light weight applications like Av7 (not to mention a featherweight like MS 10), and since these were "store demo stock" - not even "loaners -, there was no way I could load up any other appraisal programs, so I had to use some provides test suites to get my seat-of-the-pants feel. I am quite impressed with the overall performance of the Core i5, especially for a fan=less device and I still think this is the best bang for the buck model of Surface Pro.
Another thing I noticed was that the new screen is definitely brighter and seems easier to read in direct sunlight. I am guessing at this point that there are internal anti-reflective and contrast elements at play here which work with the additional brightness... I am still a person who favors an anti-glare or anti-reflective screen protector, but with this new device, we're getting to where this is perhaps not necessary and just something of a personal choice (?) Anyway, the screen is definitely better, and keep in mind - the Surface Pro screen was already one of the very best in the first place.
I'll need to check the specs more closely, but the devices themselves just feel better in the hand, too. I'm not sure if it is the softer contours or that the internals are rearranges a little for better balance, but it just feels better to me. Could be just "that new car smell" factor at work, too... ;-)
The pen feels smoother, but that is not really something that should affect regular appraisal/sketching/note taking things, but it made me happy that we're investing some time on some "pen" enhancements in some products. I think I should keep tweaking these things but I'll be pushing a release with them in there soon anyway.
I gotta figure that we should see improved battery life in these models, but really, they already have sufficient battery life to most inspection schedules. That said, better battery life is always a good thing. I'll have more to add on that front later.
So, overall, IF you are in the market for this class of device and you were holding out to see what was coming, I believe you should take a look at the newest Core i5 model. For most of our mainstream users, I am finding that the upper end ($549) Surface Go 10" model is more the adequate for a companion device, but if you just want/need a larger, more powerful tablet, the Surface Pro 6 is worthy of consideration. Of course, the new pricing leaves open the possibility to score last year's model (just "Surface Pro") or the SP4 at some deep discount, too...
I aim to put together some more comprehensive tests soon, but I'll want to order the exact model I want to use and then put it into some field trials and take photos, etc. Let me know if you have any specific questions or items you want me to cover...
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
A few people asked, and I apologize for completely failing to mention the new color choices for the SP6.
FWIW, I did use both the "traditional" Platinum finish and the new Black finish. Predictably, most others I saw there were more interested in the Black finish, but I strongly recommend the Platinum finish. Basically, due to some texture or finish treatment, they are somewhat diminished when compared to "glossy black" devices, the Black model does show fingerprints whereas the Platinum device does not. Additionally, while I do not have any actual data to support this on these models and even though the preferred (IMHO) model is fan-less, in my experience devices with darker finishes tend to feel hotter when exposed to sunlight. Since most "full Windows" tablets are configured to "throttle down" a bit when temps get into their upper design parameters, I think anything you can do to avoid excess temperatures is a good thing. For the curious, here are a couple of pictures I ganked from various on-line sources which show the devices in their two color choices.
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
FWIW, I did use both the "traditional" Platinum finish and the new Black finish. Predictably, most others I saw there were more interested in the Black finish, but I strongly recommend the Platinum finish. Basically, due to some texture or finish treatment, they are somewhat diminished when compared to "glossy black" devices, the Black model does show fingerprints whereas the Platinum device does not. Additionally, while I do not have any actual data to support this on these models and even though the preferred (IMHO) model is fan-less, in my experience devices with darker finishes tend to feel hotter when exposed to sunlight. Since most "full Windows" tablets are configured to "throttle down" a bit when temps get into their upper design parameters, I think anything you can do to avoid excess temperatures is a good thing. For the curious, here are a couple of pictures I ganked from various on-line sources which show the devices in their two color choices.
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
FWIW, here is an article on the new SP6 in which the reviewer goes into more detail comparing it to previous models. His measurements back up my "seat-of-the-pants" feelings of the new Core i5 being on par with the previous Core i7 model, which was already 25%-33% faster than the SP4 models. Those with need for some heavy lifting (i.e. the bloated "full Windows" Appraisal programs) would notice the improvements more than those who use lightweight apps due to the CPU advances and tweaks to the supporting sub-systems. I hear from many appraisers who desire to use their tablets in a true "all-in-one" manner (vs. a mobile companion piece) and for those purposes, I can recommend that you look at the SP6 as a worthy device. For MY purposes, the Core i5 with 8 GB RAM model is the one to get, but I suspect many "heavy lifter" types will feel that they need 16 GB RAM, so the Core i7 model may be their only option...
Anyway, I hope this article give you more useful info: https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-pro-6
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Anyway, I hope this article give you more useful info: https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-pro-6
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
Pretty thorough write-up on the Samsung Galaxy Book2 here: https://www.neowin.net/news/samsung-galaxy-book2-review-windows-on-arm-gets-a-lot-better
Those who are not doing "heavy lifting" (i.e. Photoshop & most full appraisal software suites) and prize long battery life, 4G LTE , etc. may be interested. I have not tested this device yet but aim to soon so that I can offer my observations regarding field work viability for mainstream appraisers/inspectors. We currently service one large customer for which this may be a very compelling device due to the manner of their software, so the device is in my sights. Others who are able to use mostly browser-based apps may also find this device interesting and viable.
Hope this helps for now!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Those who are not doing "heavy lifting" (i.e. Photoshop & most full appraisal software suites) and prize long battery life, 4G LTE , etc. may be interested. I have not tested this device yet but aim to soon so that I can offer my observations regarding field work viability for mainstream appraisers/inspectors. We currently service one large customer for which this may be a very compelling device due to the manner of their software, so the device is in my sights. Others who are able to use mostly browser-based apps may also find this device interesting and viable.
Hope this helps for now!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
Noted a new configuration option for the Surface Go. They have released the (previously) Costco-only version with 4GB of RAM and a 128 GB SSD (vs. 64GB of eMMC) for $20 less than the 8 GB + 128 GB SSD version. FWIW, for an extra $20, I'd go for the 8 GB over the 4 GB... Now, if it were something in the middle - say $475, I might give it a stronger recommendation for folks who are using this device in it's intended ("lightweight companion device") role, but even if I'm not seeing a huge speed improvement in 4 GB RAM vs 8 GB RAM (again, in lightweight apps), I'd still shell out an extra Jackson to double the RAM, for the extra "breathing room"... Just my 2¢...
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Randall Garrett
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Professional Status
- IT Professional-Appraisal Related
- State
- Texas
The 4G LTE version of the Surface Go is now up for pre-order with deliveries starting ~ 11/20/2018. MS is calling it "Surface Go with LTE Advanced"...
Prices start at $679 for the 8GB RAM/128 GB SSD/Windows S model and Business Account people can get one with 256GB SSD and Windows Pro for $829.
(Evidently, they are not releasing the 4GB/64GB model with LTE, but that is not a worry to most since the 8GB/128GB version is the sweet spot IMHO)
Anyway, my personal choice is the $679 model since it can be easily and quickly (I.e. in just a few minutes) switched to Windows Home for free.
(Brian reports "it took maybe 2 min?" when he did it on one of our devices. You basically go to the MS, store, download a small app and run it …)
For most fee appraisers/inspectors, Windows Home works just fine. Some of our Enterprise customers need Windows Pro, but for most of us, it is simply more cost effective to go with the 128 GB SSD and add a microSD card for just a few dollars, IMHO.
US Carriers at launch include AT&T, Verizon and Sprint (others later?) while non-US/overseas carriers include DoCoMo, SoftBank, KDDI, EE UK and Vodafone UK...
MS Store link: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/s..._SurfaceGo_111218&activetab=pivot:overviewtab
I have not seen it listed at the other typical retailers (Best Buy, Amazon, etc.) yet, but I am expecting it to pop up soon. I prefer to order through the MS Store and get the accidental drop policy, etc., but most people probably use Best Buy or Amazon (?)
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/
Prices start at $679 for the 8GB RAM/128 GB SSD/Windows S model and Business Account people can get one with 256GB SSD and Windows Pro for $829.
(Evidently, they are not releasing the 4GB/64GB model with LTE, but that is not a worry to most since the 8GB/128GB version is the sweet spot IMHO)
Anyway, my personal choice is the $679 model since it can be easily and quickly (I.e. in just a few minutes) switched to Windows Home for free.
(Brian reports "it took maybe 2 min?" when he did it on one of our devices. You basically go to the MS, store, download a small app and run it …)
For most fee appraisers/inspectors, Windows Home works just fine. Some of our Enterprise customers need Windows Pro, but for most of us, it is simply more cost effective to go with the 128 GB SSD and add a microSD card for just a few dollars, IMHO.
US Carriers at launch include AT&T, Verizon and Sprint (others later?) while non-US/overseas carriers include DoCoMo, SoftBank, KDDI, EE UK and Vodafone UK...
MS Store link: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/s..._SurfaceGo_111218&activetab=pivot:overviewtab
I have not seen it listed at the other typical retailers (Best Buy, Amazon, etc.) yet, but I am expecting it to pop up soon. I prefer to order through the MS Store and get the accidental drop policy, etc., but most people probably use Best Buy or Amazon (?)
Hope this helps!
-Randall Garrett-
+Apex Software+
/end/