Yes/No Flood Hazard Area

[Caterina Platt]

As Terrel notes, if any portion of the site is in a flood hazard area, it must be noted in the report. IMHO, that does not automatically translate into checking the "Yes" box on page one any more than a small corner of the site being out of the hazard area would translate into checking the "No" box. It does mean the report needs to contain the information about a portion being in the flood hazard area. The single line does not cut it for reports on properties that cross boundaries on FEMA maps. More extensive explanations are required and the client should clearly understand a survey may be in order.

On properties with mixed flood zone designations, I do not believe it is truly appropriate to check either "yes" or "no" because neither one is a true statement by itself. I think the most appropriate choice would be to leave the boxes blank, the second most appropriate would be to check both boxes, the third most appropriate would be to check the boxes based on the improvements being at risk and the least appropriate would be to always check "yes" even if one square inch of the site is in a hazard area. An appraiser should always exercise reasonable judgement to provide the information requested by the scope of work to meet the needs of the client. The job is not to blindly fill out blanks on a form based on some decision tree checklist.

If you have good judgement, use it. If you don't have good judgement, become an underwriter.

Awesome, Couch Potato!!

I want to clarify something. What type of survey were you provided? Was it an Elevation Certificate? Reason I ask is this: I own property that is entirely in the flood zone per FEMA FIRM maps. Our building pad is about a foot and a half above the alleged flood water elevation. I can provide you with an Elevation Certificate by a surveyor that states my improvements are far above the water height the FEMA maps show, thus I'm 'out of the flood zone'. HOWEVER - this only lowers my flood insurance rates. I don't get out of flood insurance completely unless I jump through the red tape and hoops to have FEMA do a LOMA and change the maps, etc. If this is the situation you describe, your appraisal would still have to say the property is in the flood zone. I don't have a LOMA, (not sure what that acronym is for but it is the process of changing the FIRM maps on a piecemeal basis) and that is why I'm still in the flood zone. A survey alone won't do it.

If, on the other hand, you have say a 10 acre parcel, the back 5 is in the flood zone and the front 5 is say, Zone X, and your survey is to show the improvements lie within the Zone X portion, you'd be correct in stating 'No'.

 

[TJSum]

I have a question. When we have a plot survey showing the Flood Zone information, does this information get most credence? Just wondered what the pecking order should be.

Surveys 1st
Flood Certs 2nd
Flood Maps 3rd

Is this order correct? Sometimes the info conflicts among the various sources, this is why I am asking.

 

[Caterina Platt]

TJ,

I don't know that any of us can give you a good rule of thumb on that one. It would almost have to be a case by case basis. Obviously, the survey would typically have the most creedence as it is done by a professional land surveyor knowledgeable of the specific parcel and area.

I have a problem with Flood Cert companies making a call on things when they are halfway across the country and can't tell you for sure they have the right panel, let alone pin point the spot on that panel. I recently went through a situation where my provider (TransUnion's flood cert division) said one thing, and First American said another. The lender's certification was from First American. I was being chided, demanded, and scolded to change my report. It was too close a call, particularly with the lack of detail we see on those FEMA maps.

I recommended they verify with a surveyor. Nope. No one wanted to spend the extra time and money with a surveyor (but it's OK to saddle the borrowers with an extra $600/year???) Gotta fund this loan, and you need to change your report. Why? Because according to our investor, all the documents have to match. Wow. That's too bad, really. I can't be coerced to say one thing or another on my report. That is lender pressure, no two ways about it. I say you need a professional's opinion on this one. I can scan in all the Flood Cert. info from all companies, and say in my report that I won't make a conclusion and recommend further verification from a surveyor. Period.

I was not popular that day.

 

[Couch Potato]

I have a question. When we have a plot survey showing the Flood Zone information, does this information get most credence? Just wondered what the pecking order should be.

Surveys 1st
Flood Certs 2nd
Flood Maps 3rd

Is this order correct? Sometimes the info conflicts among the various sources, this is why I am asking.

If the information conflicts I report it all, but I'm going use the order you have for deciding how to report on page one, assuming they are all dated the same. Flood zone boundaries move over time for many reasons. I remember just a few years ago they raised the required elevation to be out of the flood zone in Charlotte, NC. At that time the date of the information made all the difference in the world.

 

[Dale Hill]

Ms. Meyer Stratton, I too would agree with you, as long as you would also include designations of "V" or their variations, they are also FEMA designated hazard areas.

 

[TJSum]

If the information conflicts I report it all, but I'm going use the order you have for deciding how to report on page one, assuming they are all dated the same. Flood zone boundaries move over time for many reasons. I remember just a few years ago they raised the required elevation to be out of the flood zone in Charlotte, NC. At that time the date of the information made all the difference in the world.

Good call Couch. In fact, in Washington, DC right now there is a hot and heavy political debate on how much the flood zone area should be enlarged. FEMA wants to greatly increase the flood zone, but others are fighting it as it would cause many properties to start paying flood insurance who have not had to in the past. So there are politics affecting these determinations as well, go figure...

 

[Caterina Platt]

Good call Couch. In fact, in Washington, DC right now there is a hot and heavy political debate on how much the flood zone area should be enlarged. FEMA wants to greatly increase the flood zone, but others are fighting it as it would cause many properties to start paying flood insurance who have not had to in the past. So there are politics affecting these determinations as well, go figure...

Cough, cough. Excuse me? So are you implying that this Flood Zone thing is based on a financial need basis and not actually on real, proven flood hazards? (tongue firmly in cheek as I know very well that it's a bloody scam)

Hell, when downtown New Orleans which is below the physical level of Lake Ponchatrain and the Mississippi River is placed in Zone B, and maps weren't updated since the Reagan administration despite everyone's concerns about the levies which had been clearly expressed publicly, you know very well there's a scam and a half taking place.

I know he's radical, I know there's no chance in the world for him to win. I don't even know if he's playing with a full deck, but the chance to have someone in office who wants to get rid of these corrupt government agencies......Ron Paul almost sounds interesting.

 

[murray stroupe]

Yes this one is a flood hazzard area

Cough, cough. Excuse me? ....when downtown New Orleans which is below the physical level of Lake Ponchatrain and the Mississippi River is placed in Zone B, and maps weren't updated since the Reagan administration despite everyone's concerns about the levies which had been clearly expressed publicly, you know very well there's a scam and a half taking place.

=====================
Thought any one with any common sense would consider any part of New Orleans a flood hazzard area;
reguardless of a gov map. All of it is below sea level, hello.Not to mention storms.... Will resist the urge to comment on local NO government.

Of course if some have an old or new soothing/smoothing gov map saying otherwise;
glad to hear it,LOL. Thanks Cat
.

 

[Pat Butler]

You really need an elevation survey to make a correct determination. When the areas are first mapped they aren't mapped to a high enough level of resolution. So the boundaries you see on the flood map are mostly interpolated between more wide reaching survey points. This is despite the fact that there may be gulleys and channels in between the surveyed points that basically get ignored.

 

[Brad Ellis]

Walter,

While the maps may not always be clear, the flood insurance program is clear (albeit inadequate).

If any part of the improvements are in the flood zone then you would mark "yes". If no part of the improvements are in the flood hazard area then you mark "no" (Caterina's circumstance notwithstanding).

If you cannot deternime that call for a survey showing the elevations and topography so that the surveyor can make the call.

Only zones A and V are within the mandatory insurance zones.

Brad