Three days of hearings on my same complaints again. I have questions?

[Brian Weaver]

Ray;

In Illinois:
Whomever is doing a review must be very well versed in USPAP. The state agency or prosecution must be clear as to what appears to be a violation. Note that I write "appears" to be. In Illinois ONLY the Board can determine whether a USPAP violation has occurred. An ALJ may offer an opinion. I, as the state Coordinator can only offer an opinion. Any contractors that we use can only offer an opinion.

When appraisers go to civil court and there is an appraiser reviewing the work of another; the reviewing appraiser can ONLY offer an OPINION as to whether a violation has occurred. It doesn't matter if they're a USPAP instructor or not.

This is not to say that appraisers don't provide declarative statements on the stand. But, a judge...civil or administrative must weigh the declaration for what it is. In civil law the judge makes the determination. In administrative law; the Board makes the determination.

As for values...in Illinois it doesn't matter if you're dead on or out in la-la-land. Only the journey one takes to the value matters.

I know better than to comment on what happens in another jurisdiction...I can ONLY speak to what happens in Illinois.

We will be presenting a mock Settlement Conference at the ICAP seminars this summer. Should be entertaining and informative for everyone.

 

[JSmith43]

As for values...in Illinois it doesn't matter if you're dead on or out in la-la-land. Only the journey one takes to the value matters.

Brian, good job at articulating process. It is what it is and I don't expect you to comment about the horse sense of it all in the grander scheme of things.

The only time in my career I had to rebut a conventional review was when a nattering nit picker took exception to my comp selection for using a multi-level comp for a subject that was a "modified" 2 story.

For those of you in states where the term is unfamiliar, a modified 2 story might be described as a multi-level where some of the levels are only 2-4 risers up/down. That was the worst of the nattering comments, but the review rivaled TC reviewing some of Ray's or Jay's earlier posts for traditional punctuation and grammar

Making lemonade out of a lemon, the state director needed an extra conference speaker & somehow had roped me in. So, I decided to use this appraisal, review & my rebuttal (confidential items removed) as a public dissection of how someone might handle a negative review. The fun part was knowing the reviewer was most likely a competitor in attendance.

Much like Ray's situation, there were lots of technical errors in the assertions presented by the reviewer, easily rebutted (if you don't count time) by cut and pastes of FNMA selling guide-appraisal section. Other examples came from multiple uses of the terms split level and modified two story, often interchanged within the context of a listing. Those were the two most contentious items. As luck would have it, my report was an average or better example of my work, relatively easy to defend. The property was in an area of SFR on 2-5 acre parcels, sales relatively nearby, but sizes and ages varied quite a bit. Perfect model matches not to be expected.

It made for an interesting hour presentation and about 45 minutes Q & A. A high official from FNMA made a presentation prior to mine & I had asked if he might sit through my presentation. He agreed. It worked out great, because I got to use his diagram, still on a presentation board to confirm my interpretation of FNMA guidelines in my report.

The most interesting point was when I turned to him and asked how far he thought it would be reasonable to go in addressing the points of contention in the review (I practically wrote a book dissecting the flaws in the review arguments advanced). He pointed to the review section where the reviewer agreed with my value conclusion and said, "I would have stopped about right there."

So, we've come a long way since then (about 17 years ago). Some of the changes in the right direction and some in the wrong direction, IMO.

 

[Ray Miller]

For those of you in states where the term is unfamiliar, a modified 2 story might be described as a multi-level where some of the levels are only 2-4 risers up/down. That was the worst of the nattering comments, but the review rivaled TC reviewing some of Ray's or Jay's earlier posts for traditional punctuation and grammar

.

I considered his corrections something that Hester Hultz could never teach me. I miss those these days from TC. Guess he just gave up on the ole cowman, buckaroo, wrangler, packer, farrier and went on to bigger and better things.

Wished he would have been in that hearing room last week. The state sure had people coming in an out. Figured they were trainee's or they had never seen any thing quite like me and what to see who was making all the fuss.

Sure cost a wad of folding money and lots of jingle from one's pocket. I could have spent a week in downtown KC and much more fun.

 

[OSU Beavers]

Three days of Hearings on my same complaints again.

Double jeopardy?

 

[agedaprsr]

End result is you spend time and money to prove you made some errors in your report even though the value was correct, and there was no injured party !

Kind of ironic that the only complaints we usually get are for values we didn't make for someone, or because of a fee somebody doesn't feel they have to pay, for whatever reason !

I recently was in a battle with Freddie Mac because of some appraisals completed during the busier part of the Real Estate Boom in Florida, Though I had over twenty comparable sales from within my project and over twenty from competing projects, to support my value, the review appraiser contention was that I should have known the Real Estate bubble was going to burst and valued the properties at a 20% discount. Prior to legal counsel and pages and pages of supporting documentation Freddie Mac had intended to post my name on their "Exclusionary List" based on what one reviewer, evidently with a crystal ball, had stated in his review. Being on any exclusionary list at this time would be the kiss of death.

Anyhow, what I'm trying to say is all appraisers have a target on their back right now and everyone is looking for someone to blame. But, keep the faith, as this too shall pass.

 

[Smokey Bear]

I'd love to see the reviewer's graphs and data that SHOWED you could tell the bubble was going to burst and when, and also the data supporting the 20% discount based on the projected bubble burst. What a crock!

 

[agedaprsr]

Everyone rises to their own level of incompetence

I'd love to see the reviewers graphs and data that SHOWED you could tell the bubble was going to burst and when, and also the data supporting the 20% discount based on the projected bubble burst. What a crock!

Exactly. This came from the same appraiser who said if the property is located within the City limits it must be designated as Urban, closing documents should not be considered as supporting sale data and you cannot use sales unless they were marketed through MLS !

I think you get the picture ! m2:

 

[Ray Miller]

Ray;


This is not to say that appraisers don't provide declarative statements on the stand. But, a judge...civil or administrative must weigh the declaration for what it is. In civil law the judge makes the determination. In administrative law; the Board makes the determination.

.

No doubt, with the history I have with this Wisconsin Board it will end up in Civil Court. That is the next apeal after the board issued thier ruling. Be it State and/or Federal Court. I can see another $50K to $150K at least before this case is finished and that is just my part.

I still think that if expert witness is as confused as some of these were, calling things points of law that were not, not following USPAP in their reviews of my appraisal, they should also have compaints filed against them and stand the test in an open hearing. After all it is a matter of record of what they atested to under oath.

Why should that not be fair??

 

[Workbox]

Ray, from what I have read and learned from your post in so many years, and what you have gone through, there is a reason why,........... it may be at your expen$e, but more than that, it will be at THEIR! EXPEN$E! Their are certian Dynamics that are beyond USPAP or TAF/ASB that are going on here................... We must listen the silence.............you know what I mean. You are a great,.......................

 

[Smokey Bear]

Ray - when is the judge going to throw in the towel and find the AG in contempt of court for this kangaroo court?