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Appraisal Start Program
- Thread starter Michigander
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Deleted member 130081
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Well. What, no one thinks this is great? Denis only? I just don't understand! Because I mean of course, software and education have always been the obstacles to trainees right? OMFG. I didn't realize Joan was behind this. Joan ruined me with that damn Clearbox ****. Best client I ever had vanished over-night and I haven't recovered since (ok, maybe my fault for too many eggs). Well, I just came from responding personally to a blast from AXIS about this and here the forum is echoing everything I said. Marion hit it true with few words (of course). Seeing as I am looking for career options anyways, here is the letter I wrote in response. Yes, I actually sent this.
Hello Michael,
So…uhm…I read over the promotional materials concerning the AXIS Supervisory Program that were broadcast. It sounds great, but really there is only one burning question, how will a trainee be paid for on a day to day basis in this program? Did I miss that part? The cost of a trainee goes much further than software and courses. In fact, these were never an obstacle. The true culprit here is the decimation of the industry, plain and simple. The AMC model and what we as appraisers term “scope creep” have removed the margins that were previously used for training expenses and the entrepreneurial incentive to even bother. This is why appraisers have left the industry and no one has come to replace them. Now as appraisers, we understand simple economics. Does Axis? Without reestablishing profit incentive, I predict your program is going to be a hard sell to appraisers. In fact, the collective mind of appraisers, being versed in simple economics, will probably just opt to wait it out and see, no? I have to imagine the folks at a successful operation like Axis are smart enough to realize this, so please don’t fault me if I am skeptical of intent here. Please, feel free to change my perceptions. Here’s a suggestion, take whatever it is you are spending on this program, plus whatever it would take to pay appraisers a reasonable fee, and put it back in the hands of appraisers. Then, sit back and watch the industry heal itself. It’ll be like magic.
PS. I have been on your roster for years and am pummeled with these sorts of enthusiastic emails all the time, yet have not received a single order from Axis ever. So…
LOL – PS PS – I only have the time to write this because I don’t have a single order in que. It is noon, I am in my pajamas and am considering what career path I will pursue next. Painting looks nice. I am one of the smartest appraisers still out there, if I do say so myself, and would love to have trainees. In fact I have had trainees, only to realize they cost more than I could make without them. I even had one that worked for free and I still lost money. My published fee is $350 and for clients who don’t suck, I work for less. How little do AMCs think appraisers ought to work for? We made $350 and more twelve years ago when I started and we could do three times as many in the same amount of time (and these were every bit as good as they are today, maybe better). My mentor paid 40% and everyone made money. My mentor had about 10 people including 5 appraisers (all trainees at first) and 5 support staff. When the AMC thing happened, he ended up working out of his living room by himself and eventually filed for bankruptcy. Today he paints houses. I mean, you do see the level of insult your little program is to the people you are selling it to right? So, who are you in fact selling it to?
Peace baby.
Sincerely,
M
Hello Michael,
So…uhm…I read over the promotional materials concerning the AXIS Supervisory Program that were broadcast. It sounds great, but really there is only one burning question, how will a trainee be paid for on a day to day basis in this program? Did I miss that part? The cost of a trainee goes much further than software and courses. In fact, these were never an obstacle. The true culprit here is the decimation of the industry, plain and simple. The AMC model and what we as appraisers term “scope creep” have removed the margins that were previously used for training expenses and the entrepreneurial incentive to even bother. This is why appraisers have left the industry and no one has come to replace them. Now as appraisers, we understand simple economics. Does Axis? Without reestablishing profit incentive, I predict your program is going to be a hard sell to appraisers. In fact, the collective mind of appraisers, being versed in simple economics, will probably just opt to wait it out and see, no? I have to imagine the folks at a successful operation like Axis are smart enough to realize this, so please don’t fault me if I am skeptical of intent here. Please, feel free to change my perceptions. Here’s a suggestion, take whatever it is you are spending on this program, plus whatever it would take to pay appraisers a reasonable fee, and put it back in the hands of appraisers. Then, sit back and watch the industry heal itself. It’ll be like magic.
PS. I have been on your roster for years and am pummeled with these sorts of enthusiastic emails all the time, yet have not received a single order from Axis ever. So…
LOL – PS PS – I only have the time to write this because I don’t have a single order in que. It is noon, I am in my pajamas and am considering what career path I will pursue next. Painting looks nice. I am one of the smartest appraisers still out there, if I do say so myself, and would love to have trainees. In fact I have had trainees, only to realize they cost more than I could make without them. I even had one that worked for free and I still lost money. My published fee is $350 and for clients who don’t suck, I work for less. How little do AMCs think appraisers ought to work for? We made $350 and more twelve years ago when I started and we could do three times as many in the same amount of time (and these were every bit as good as they are today, maybe better). My mentor paid 40% and everyone made money. My mentor had about 10 people including 5 appraisers (all trainees at first) and 5 support staff. When the AMC thing happened, he ended up working out of his living room by himself and eventually filed for bankruptcy. Today he paints houses. I mean, you do see the level of insult your little program is to the people you are selling it to right? So, who are you in fact selling it to?
Peace baby.
Sincerely,
M
Michigan CG
Elite Member
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- Nov 1, 2006
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Michigan
Eli
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- May 12, 2007
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Tennessee
It's worse than that. The FTC will get an earful relative to price to the borrower and the disparity between an oligopsony and a free market relative to public interest.
Dublin ohio
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- Joined
- Mar 20, 2008
- Professional Status
- Licensed Appraiser
- State
- Ohio
But only one size fits all.
bnmappraisal
Elite Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2011
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Florida
This was the other half of the message from Axis:
"There are several key components to the START program that serves to alleviate most of the barriers to re-growing the profession:
1. Helping you train through documents and online coursework that the trainee will access to help you with the heavy lifting!!! Participating supervisors have access to the SUPERVISOR MANUAL. And trainees are required to take on line practicum course work. For example, take a look at the standards taught and tested within the first module. A trainee has to complete coursework, have a supervisor SIGN OFF ON PROFICIENCY within each standard during a minimum of 40 joint home inspections, and pass an exam that tests the trainee’s competency:
· Standard 1 | Correctly noting and recording exterior property features
· Standard 2 | Ensuring appropriate pre-inspection preparation is completed
· Standard 3 | Taking correct and clear photos of all required elements
· Standard 4 | Developing a thorough and consistent inspection routine
· Standard 5 | Maintaining appropriate professionalism and customer communication
· Standard 6 | Accurately measuring the subject property and determining which spaces to include in the GLA, and which spaces to label separately
· Standard 7 | Correctly recording room types and count
· Standard 8 | Correctly noting and recording interior property features
· Standard 9 | Correctly noting and recording any health and safety issues
· Standard 10 | Correctly identifying external obsolescence
2. Testing Modules with Certification through a CRN registered AMC that the trainee will place within each report.
3. Reductions in costs by teaming with industry leaders - SPONSORS. Currently software and data providers have agreed to reduced software fees to licensees while they get up to speed. And we are reaching out to REALTOR Boards and other industry affiliates to gather additional cost-saving support for trainees.
4. Helping you monetize your investment in trainees sooner. CLICK HERE to see state requirements in relation to state required coursework and solo inspections. Many states allow for solo inspections of trainees as does Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. We are working with our lenders to free up the restrictions in this arena.
We need your support of the program by signing up as a supervisor and hiring a trainee. "
"There are several key components to the START program that serves to alleviate most of the barriers to re-growing the profession:
1. Helping you train through documents and online coursework that the trainee will access to help you with the heavy lifting!!! Participating supervisors have access to the SUPERVISOR MANUAL. And trainees are required to take on line practicum course work. For example, take a look at the standards taught and tested within the first module. A trainee has to complete coursework, have a supervisor SIGN OFF ON PROFICIENCY within each standard during a minimum of 40 joint home inspections, and pass an exam that tests the trainee’s competency:
· Standard 1 | Correctly noting and recording exterior property features
· Standard 2 | Ensuring appropriate pre-inspection preparation is completed
· Standard 3 | Taking correct and clear photos of all required elements
· Standard 4 | Developing a thorough and consistent inspection routine
· Standard 5 | Maintaining appropriate professionalism and customer communication
· Standard 6 | Accurately measuring the subject property and determining which spaces to include in the GLA, and which spaces to label separately
· Standard 7 | Correctly recording room types and count
· Standard 8 | Correctly noting and recording interior property features
· Standard 9 | Correctly noting and recording any health and safety issues
· Standard 10 | Correctly identifying external obsolescence
2. Testing Modules with Certification through a CRN registered AMC that the trainee will place within each report.
3. Reductions in costs by teaming with industry leaders - SPONSORS. Currently software and data providers have agreed to reduced software fees to licensees while they get up to speed. And we are reaching out to REALTOR Boards and other industry affiliates to gather additional cost-saving support for trainees.
4. Helping you monetize your investment in trainees sooner. CLICK HERE to see state requirements in relation to state required coursework and solo inspections. Many states allow for solo inspections of trainees as does Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. We are working with our lenders to free up the restrictions in this arena.
We need your support of the program by signing up as a supervisor and hiring a trainee. "
J Grant
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2003
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Florida
Trainee work without supervisor inspects; some lenders will use it, others won't. The volume appraisal mills and greedy individuals would train with or without this START program.
I think appraisers are overall savvy to the fact of what is happening and there wont' be a giant rush to train simply because they are allowed to inspect solo sooner...
I predict that despite the opportunity to inspect/ get licensed sooner, the field will not be overrun with newbies. A newbie has no idea of how hard the work is nor how demanding the clients are esp relative to fees .Unless lenders /regulators drastically loosen what they will accept, the work is far more demanding in stips and UAD and time pressure than when most of us trained. High turnover and burnout soon to follow.
Newbies can go online can read appraisal blogs and BB and FB as well as talk to appraisers and find out the lousy pay and lack of loyalty from AMC's,, which are the clients apt to hire and use them. Combined with Fannie and Freddie introducing a segment of loans not using appraisers, those entering knowing all this won't be the brightest people on the planet. I feel sorry for these trainees who will be hired for cynical exploitation rather than from a mentor sincerely interested in teaching them.
While the field does need new people entering, that is already happening at a rate appropriate to demand , just not at a rate that lets the AMC's count on exploiting an over supply forever; thus they are salivating at the prospect.
I think appraisers are overall savvy to the fact of what is happening and there wont' be a giant rush to train simply because they are allowed to inspect solo sooner...
I predict that despite the opportunity to inspect/ get licensed sooner, the field will not be overrun with newbies. A newbie has no idea of how hard the work is nor how demanding the clients are esp relative to fees .Unless lenders /regulators drastically loosen what they will accept, the work is far more demanding in stips and UAD and time pressure than when most of us trained. High turnover and burnout soon to follow.
Newbies can go online can read appraisal blogs and BB and FB as well as talk to appraisers and find out the lousy pay and lack of loyalty from AMC's,, which are the clients apt to hire and use them. Combined with Fannie and Freddie introducing a segment of loans not using appraisers, those entering knowing all this won't be the brightest people on the planet. I feel sorry for these trainees who will be hired for cynical exploitation rather than from a mentor sincerely interested in teaching them.
While the field does need new people entering, that is already happening at a rate appropriate to demand , just not at a rate that lets the AMC's count on exploiting an over supply forever; thus they are salivating at the prospect.
Last edited:
Michigan CG
Elite Member
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2006
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Michigan
As soon as they quit sending blast e-mails to 30 appraisers at a time looking for fastest and cheapest maybe some will consider hiring a trainee.
George Hatch
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- California
"Re-growing" the profession? WTH?
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