Significant Appraisal Assistance (1004p)

[djd09]

Only 'appraisers' that aren't really appraisers anymore think that all you do at a subject property is data collection. Take off the suits, cancel one of the many BS conferences you attend, and get out in the field.

We all cannot be Chief Appraisers Valuation Visionary Award winners for the mega AMCs.

But the third party inspectors sure makes sense to Appraisers that are licensed in 13 States.

 

[J Grant]

So what else besides measuring and taking pix do you do in a conventional 1004 that you will not do in a 1004P?

It is the personal inspection vs another party doing it.

When an appraiser inspects a subject, they are not just performing rote tasks, they are gathering vital impressions and opinions because they compare the property to the thousands of others they have seen in the field . Also the appraiser frequently interacts with a RE agent, owner or builder on site and gets information.

The appraiser inspecting the subject develops an integrated report. When the inspection comes in second hand it is a piece meal report. Substituting a second hand inspection will yield "data", but it will never provide the same first hand impressions and feedback, which can distort final result. I often decide my value in a close call depending on what I observed at the inspection, and I know from experience, even with today';s good overhead maps, clear MLS photos, lots of data, that the impressions I form onsite are often different than how the property appears in notes, photos and on a map.

Having another party inspect subject for a 1004 is like paying another person to eat a meal for you. The person reports a list of "facts", what the ingredients were ,temp degrees and how large the plate was . But you still have no idea how it really tastes, and if it the meal is really better, worse, or the same as other meals .

The fast turn times for both the inspector and the appraiser at desk adds to the fast food assembly line new world these will bring. Sorry Fannie, a property valuation underwriting a loan for 30 years of an investment of hundreds of thousands of dollars to secondary market ( and affecting a borrower even tough they are not the client) is not the same as an UBER ride or ordering a pair of socks from amazon. Their willingness to sacrifice soundness of appraisals to emulate a click service fro a cheap consumer good is insane. However massive govt and corporate insanity at the highest level of financial and housing markets has transpired at various times over the yeas, so they are following a historic trajectory

 

[J Grant]

I agree with you. What I don't agree with is appraisers making adjustments down to the dollar when they KNOW that the data they are comparing against does not measure to that degree. Another reason why I don't think any adjustment should not be rounded to the nearest $1,000.

I happen to agree (ouch!) and I round to nearest 1k as do many appraisers. However, If one appraiser measures a dwelling at 1970 sf and another appraiser has it at 2000 sf, it will not materially affect assignment results . But if their anlisis of the sf relative to floor plan,the identified buyer for that kind of living area and comp choices for it are skewed , that will materially affect results.

An appraiser on site and a thrid party might measure the same or simlar, what is lacking is the appraiser;s first hand impression of the floorplan, ceiling height, light, quality, etc. As we know 2000 sf in one dwelling can be worth vastly more or less than the same 2000 sf in another dwelling, even in the house next door. While the appraiser will get notes and photos , it still is not a substitute for the first hand impressions..in come cases it might not matter at all, in others it can matter a great deal.

When I see numbers not rounded on a grid it can be an an AVM type program that dumped numbers in for the adjustments as set, and appraiser leaves them just as they are.

 

[Carnivore]

Where I think some have a valid argument about inspections is when it involves; FHA; FHA/VA; VA; USDA; ,etc Simply Government Loans. In the respective manuals, publications of these organizations it specifically spells out Inspection standards/reporting requirements for Appraisers. No where in those Regulatory Documents have I found anything about third Party Inspectors except I recall something about Approved Property Inspectors ...something like that

The purpose of the property valuation process is to  determine eligibility for mortgage insurance based on the condition and location of a property, and  estimate the value of the property for mortgage insurance purposes. The appraisal is the lender’s tool for making this determination

In the world of Conventional nothing exist to impede a lender on who does what - The exception would be self imposed requirements that they place on themselves internally.

Just remember USPAP is one thing any Party can add to USPAP as supplemental requirements.

 

[George Hatch]

It is the personal inspection vs another party doing it.

When an appraiser inspects a subject, they are not just performing rote tasks, they are gathering vital impressions and opinions because they compare the property to the thousands of others they have seen in the field . Also the appraiser frequently interacts with a RE agent, owner or builder on site and gets information.

The appraiser inspecting the subject develops an integrated report. When the inspection comes in second hand it is a piece meal report. Substituting a second hand inspection will yield "data", but it will never provide the same first hand impressions and feedback, which can distort final result. I often decide my value in a close call depending on what I observed at the inspection, and I know from experience, even with today';s good overhead maps, clear MLS photos, lots of data, that the impressions I form onsite are often different than how the property appears in notes, photos and on a map.

Having another party inspect subject for a 1004 is like paying another person to eat a meal for you. The person reports a list of "facts", what the ingredients were ,temp degrees and how large the plate was . But you still have no idea how it really tastes, and if it the meal is really better, worse, or the same as other meals .

The fast turn times for both the inspector and the appraiser at desk adds to the fast food assembly line new world these will bring. Sorry Fannie, a property valuation underwriting a loan for 30 years of an investment of hundreds of thousands of dollars to secondary market ( and affecting a borrower even tough they are not the client) is not the same as an UBER ride or ordering a pair of socks from amazon. Their willingness to sacrifice soundness of appraisals to emulate a click service fro a cheap consumer good is insane. However massive govt and corporate insanity at the highest level of financial and housing markets has transpired at various times over the yeas, so they are following a historic trajectory

LOL - you know I fully anticipated a response of this sort from one of you before I even asked the question, right?

I'm asking what you will be "unable* to do in a 1004p. Can you still interact with the broker? Can you still form your own impressions from what you're seeing in the report? etc, etc. The *extent* to which you will be able to develop these other aspects will certainly be more limited, no doubt; but that's not the same thing as saying that the inspection goes beyond the function of data collection.

I just got an article published where I opined that appraisers performing these assignments will have to do *more* work at their desk in order to parallel some of the multi-tasking they're doing in a conventional 1004 assignment inspection. So I get it. But that doesn't alter the fact that field-developed information on the front page of the URAR is primarily a function of data collection.

 

[George Hatch]

We all cannot be Chief Appraisers Valuation Visionary Award winners for the mega AMCs.

But the third party inspectors sure makes sense to Appraisers that are licensed in 13 States.

Attacking the individual isn't an argument.

 

[J Grant]

LOL - you know I fully anticipated a response of this sort from one of you before I even asked the question, right?
I'm asking what you will be "unable* to do in a 1004p. Can you still interact with the broker? Can you still form your own impressions from what you're seeing in the report? etc, etc. The *extent* to which you will be able to develop these other aspects will certainly be more limited, no doubt; but that's not the same thing as saying that the inspection goes beyond the function of data collection.

Right ! I guessed you would anticipate it..btw do you realize you often echo D Wiley in many of these threads? (since we anticipate another's response so well )

To address your question...what will i be unable to do-

Sounds redundant but I am UNABLE to walk the property and interior and get first hand observation,- which will affect my ability to "Form own impressions" - these impressions second hand can not be those I would have formed had I been there.

Often times, no I can manage to contact or interact or at least in a timely manner, a RE agent, owner or builder if I miss them on site,or the conversation is different than when onsite, p;;us I can not get floorplans, comps, site surveys other info from them (or if I can get them will take much longer )

I am unable to see immediate site influences and hear noise or lack of it around the subject and drive comps/get context for their location and sites vs the subject.

 

[djd09]

hahahaha.
you can interrupt my comments any way you want. no attack, just facts. good try though.

 

[George Hatch]

Right ! I guessed you would anticipate it..btw do you realize you often echo D Wiley in many of these threads? (since we anticipate another's response so well )

To address your question...what will i be unable to do-

Sounds redundant but I am UNABLE to walk the property and interior and get first hand observation,- which will affect my ability to "Form own impressions" - these impressions second hand can not be those I would have formed had I been there.


I am unable to see immediate site influences and hear noise or lack of it around the subject and drive comps/get context for their location and sites vs the subject.

You're just making the point that it's the *extent* of the data collection that is affected. No different than if you were to compare the appraiser's activities in a 2055 vs a 1004.

And yeah, I usually do see things the way Danny does. If you looked at things from a more conceptual perspective I think you would, too.

Fannie has said - and a lot of appraisers believe - that the requirements of the form drive the process. That's akin to saying the underyling fundamentals are an expression of the application, as opposed to saying the application is the expression of the underyling fundamentals. You usually test the concepts and principles by comparing them to the applications, whereas I test the applications by comparing them to the concepts and principles.

I believe that's why you want USPAP to be changed to better fit your preferences for the applications. You want to tell the intended users what they can use. I want to let them decide for themselves what - beyond our minimums - their other legitimate expectations are so I can adjust my efforts to fit.

 

[Eli]

You're just making the point that it's the *extent* of the data collection that is affected. No different than if you were to compare the appraiser's activities in a 2055 vs a 1004.

Big difference if appraiser is inspecting both subject and comparables and driving neighborhood and analyzing not only internal influences but external influences, which constantly change.