Standardized Property Measuring Guidelines

[Dublin ohio]

The "five level" split is pretty common in my area. They all have 4 levels finished. With one level partially below grade (usually a couple of feet at most). Have always departed from typical GLA definition. Since the market sees it as GLA and there is no way to segregate it out since they all have the partially below grade finished area. Plus most of the assessors include it as GLA. So with ANSI. I will have to "segregate" the below grade area and room count and put it on the basement line. But I will have to look at each sketch for the comparable sales and segregate out the below grade portion the assessor includes and explain why my GLA is different than assessor for comps. Not really a problem. Since my finished below grade adjustments will be he same as my above grade adjustments. But it will get questioned by every re agent when doing a purchase. Regardless of any explanation within the report. Will get additional requests to explain. Even though it is within the original report. Just more explanation that will do nothing but confuse users and/or AMC reviewers. Since most will have no idea wtf ANSI is.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

ANSI is easy. I promise you it is easy. If it is not easy, you may need to seek another occupation.

No one argues that ANSI is 'hard'. What we argue that it is pointless. It is also another "gotcha" where someone can (and almost certainly will) argue that you were "wrong" - perhaps by as little as a couple of tenths of a foot. And, again, the "precision" of your measurement is not a measure of its "accuracy". Any surveyor would laugh at the crudeness of our methodology. No level, no tension, no true "targets"- a clipboard maybe held up to a rugose edge of a rock or brick building.

I used to have a cat. That cat would stalk a mouse and then pounce upon the clump of grass the mouse supposedly was in. Sometimes he came up empty and then proceeded to swat the clump of grass around as if that were his primary goal and he never intended to catch a mouse. This is the same. You fix a real problem (inaccurate sketches and SF estimates) by clarifying that you need some more systematic method of measuring.

First off, the primary sketcher of record is the assessor. Realist does not sketch. It is a secondary source, only regurgitating the SF posted by the assessor. Secondly, a Realtor MIGHT measure but normally, unless the homeowner shows a previous appraisal to the agent (which might only be a copy of the assessor's sketch) agents are discouraged from measuring themselves because of potential liability. The attorney for the state RE Assoc. even sent letters to the various boards urging them to not measure. I do see houses "sold" as SF that differs from the sketch and I even have measured one and found the assessor was exactly right whereas the agent had overstated the SF. How and why, I have no idea.

Third there is a lot of issues with really old houses. Tons of 800 SF homes had an 8 x 16 entry porch, which was enclosed and finished out. Eventually the assessor called it SF and so it became. Same with rear porches (example below) In reality, they could be segregated but in doing so, only complicates the adjustments with other houses....and needlessly so. It is used as GLA...so segregating it is making the case more difficult. And again you have that "out" about what do my peers do - well, they include it all.

The problem is not the precision of measurements. The problem is what is and is not being measured.

This house was remodeled by the preacher Osteen's half-brother who did things 'right' and sold well, then later resold and sold twice last year. I don't know who appraised it but it sold for $250,000 last time and as far as I can tell nothing was done to it since the investment company flipped it. It is absurdly over priced 100 plus year old house. And it is less than 1500 SF of "GLA" in reality.

 

[ramrcdk]

simply, the problem is, that the gse's will exempt certain appraisal products from this standard, along with the fact that the realtors, county, and pretty much the whole real estate industry is not on the same page.

it is a practice of futility

Around HERE: they are ! Funny HOW the CE is different ..in different States.
Real Estate: Our Local Board & MLS mandate ANSI. Realtors that hire measuring services USE & have for some time: ANSI.
I've been ANSI Standard since a CE class recommended it, years ago.

WHY:??? because "they" want a standardized METHOD use by ALL and that's ANSI. No BIGGY.

appraiserelearning.com has CE and a certification via a couple of classes

 

[Alsie35]

The "five level" split is pretty common in my area. They all have 4 levels finished. With one level partially below grade (usually a couple of feet at most). Have always departed from typical GLA definition. Since the market sees it as GLA and there is no way to segregate it out since they all have the partially below grade finished area. Plus most of the assessors include it as GLA. So with ANSI. I will have to "segregate" the below grade area and room count and put it on the basement line. But I will have to look at each sketch for the comparable sales and segregate out the below grade portion the assessor includes and explain why my GLA is different than assessor for comps. Not really a problem. Since my finished below grade adjustments will be he same as my above grade adjustments. But it will get questioned by every re agent when doing a purchase. Regardless of any explanation within the report. Will get additional requests to explain. Even though it is within the original report. Just more explanation that will do nothing but confuse users and/or AMC reviewers. Since most will have no idea wtf ANSI is.

I have highlighted the "science fiction" part of your post for those of us in states where sketches for comps are not available. So we will continue using the GLA from MLS and County Records, trying to reconcile any difference between the two via MLS photo. (Oh yeah, that's a REAL reliable method. Thanks a lot, Fannie "Appraisal gods").

Terrel Shields already hit the nail on the head above. This changes nothing except the fraction of each measurement - and gives another grounds on which to question us.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Our Local Board & MLS mandate ANSI. Realtors that hire measuring services USE & have for some time: ANSI.

They hire it done to avoid the liability....guess who gets it.

What does the board say about barns and outbuildings?

 

[Dublin ohio]

I have highlighted the "science fiction" part of your post for those of us in states where sketches for comps are not available.

Which is why I said:

in my area.

 

[CGinMN]

"What do you mean my house is only 300sf with 1 total room, 0 beds, and 0 baths?"

 

[glenn walker]

Then USPAP is misleading appraisers in believing we have only one client. USPAP needs to clarify the reality of our business.

Your killing me Glenn. Okay, probably you all should wake up and realize new GSE forms are coming out soon with new certifications.

Zoe-Don't Ever Question My Credentials

 

[Mejappz]

No one argues that ANSI is 'hard'. What we argue that it is pointless. It is also another "gotcha" where someone can (and almost certainly will) argue that you were "wrong" - perhaps by as little as a couple of tenths of a foot. And, again, the "precision" of your measurement is not a measure of its "accuracy". Any surveyor would laugh at the crudeness of our methodology. No level, no tension, no true "targets"- a clipboard maybe held up to a rugose edge of a rock or brick building.

I used to have a cat. That cat would stalk a mouse and then pounce upon the clump of grass the mouse supposedly was in. Sometimes he came up empty and then proceeded to swat the clump of grass around as if that were his primary goal and he never intended to catch a mouse. This is the same. You fix a real problem (inaccurate sketches and SF estimates) by clarifying that you need some more systematic method of measuring.

First off, the primary sketcher of record is the assessor. Realist does not sketch. It is a secondary source, only regurgitating the SF posted by the assessor. Secondly, a Realtor MIGHT measure but normally, unless the homeowner shows a previous appraisal to the agent (which might only be a copy of the assessor's sketch) agents are discouraged from measuring themselves because of potential liability. The attorney for the state RE Assoc. even sent letters to the various boards urging them to not measure. I do see houses "sold" as SF that differs from the sketch and I even have measured one and found the assessor was exactly right whereas the agent had overstated the SF. How and why, I have no idea.

Third there is a lot of issues with really old houses. Tons of 800 SF homes had an 8 x 16 entry porch, which was enclosed and finished out. Eventually the assessor called it SF and so it became. Same with rear porches (example below) In reality, they could be segregated but in doing so, only complicates the adjustments with other houses....and needlessly so. It is used as GLA...so segregating it is making the case more difficult. And again you have that "out" about what do my peers do - well, they include it all.

The problem is not the precision of measurements. The problem is what is and is not being measured.
View attachment 58058
This house was remodeled by the preacher Osteen's half-brother who did things 'right' and sold well, then later resold and sold twice last year. I don't know who appraised it but it sold for $250,000 last time and as far as I can tell nothing was done to it since the investment company flipped it. It is absurdly over priced 100 plus year old house. And it is less than 1500 SF of "GLA" in reality.

View attachment 58059

Yep and those enclosed patios down here are called Florida rooms and the market treats them as GLA.

 

[Mejappz]

The "five level" split is pretty common in my area. They all have 4 levels finished. With one level partially below grade (usually a couple of feet at most). Have always departed from typical GLA definition. Since the market sees it as GLA and there is no way to segregate it out since they all have the partially below grade finished area. Plus most of the assessors include it as GLA. So with ANSI. I will have to "segregate" the below grade area and room count and put it on the basement line. But I will have to look at each sketch for the comparable sales and segregate out the below grade portion the assessor includes and explain why my GLA is different than assessor for comps. Not really a problem. Since my finished below grade adjustments will be he same as my above grade adjustments. But it will get questioned by every re agent when doing a purchase. Regardless of any explanation within the report. Will get additional requests to explain. Even though it is within the original report. Just more explanation that will do nothing but confuse users and/or AMC reviewers. Since most will have no idea wtf ANSI is.

What a mess. I would count it as GLA just as the market and assessor.