Anyone Going To Valuation Expo ** Las Vegas In August ?

[Zoe]

It would definitely be fun to do this sometime, maybe in the middle of the country

I would probably be asked to leave a presentation when I went off on separation of fees (commingling of fees). LOL

 

[TC]

Nah, you just be asked to leave.

 

[Zoe]

Nah, you just be asked to leave.

I would say I don't know why I came anyway. Bye !

Tell Ms. Trice I said Hi please.

 

[George Hatch]

Interesting. So they aren’t middle men anymore as required by DF? In my state to have an AMC license you are required ti manage and maintain a panel of independent fee appraisers. No mention of it being a license to turn into your own appraisal company.

Like anything else, it will take a few years for the regulators to catch up with the unethical scumbags. That’s true in every profession.

Staff appraisers on a large scale has never worked.

I get where you're trying to go with this (that it's a violation of D-F or state law for an AMC to employ staff appraisers ) but I can't find any reference to such a prohibition in either D-F or your state's regs.

And while we're at it, what's the difference between a lender directly contracting with any individual appraiser vs directly contracting with any appraisal company? Even if an AMC is functioning like an appraisal company how does that violate either the letter or the intent of the banking regs or your state's laws?

The prohibition is against allowing the salespeople to control the appraisal. Direct engagement by the lender is not a violation and neither is delegating the engagement to a 3rd party AMC a violation.

 

[chad hampton]

I didn't see that when I looked at your state's regs. Do you have a citation for that?

Sure - NC appraiser act page 15 -
Appraisal management services. – Direct or indirect performance of any of the following functions on behalf of a lender, financial institution, client, or any other person:
a - Administer an appraiser panel.
b - Recruit, qualify, and/or verify licensing or certification of appraisers who are or may become part of an appraiser panel.
c - Negotiate fees and service level expectations with appraisers who are part of an appraiser panel.
d - Receive an order for an appraisal from one person and deliver the order for the appraisal to an appraiser that is part of an appraiser panel for completion.
e - Take and determine the status of orders for appraisals.
f - Conduct quality control of a completed appraisal performed by an appraiser who is part of an appraiser panel prior to the delivery of the appraisal to the person that ordered the appraisal.
g - Provide a completed appraisal performed by an appraiser who is part of an appraiser panel to one or more persons who have ordered an appraisal.

It even goes on to define appraiser panel:

(5) Appraiser panel or fee panel. – A network of licensed or certified appraisers who are independent contractors to the appraisal management company that have:

a. Responded to an invitation, request, or solicitation from an appraisal management company, in any form, to perform appraisals for persons that have ordered appraisals through the appraisal management company or to perform appraisals for the appraisal management company directly, on a periodic basis, as requested and assigned by the appraisal management company; and

b. Been selected and approved by an appraisal management company to perform appraisals for any client or the appraisal management company that has ordered an appraisal through the appraisal management company or to perform appraisals for the appraisal management company directly, on a periodic basis, as assigned by the appraisal management company. Board.

I highlighted the parts that you'll want to focus on. I have no doubt you will come back with some twisted wordsmithing to claim that means the AMC can also have staff appraisers and be appraisal companies too.

 

[chad hampton]

I get where you're trying to go with this (that it's a violation of D-F or state law for an AMC to employ staff appraisers ) but I can't find any reference to such a prohibition in either D-F or your state's regs.

And while we're at it, what's the difference between a lender directly contracting with any individual appraiser vs directly contracting with any appraisal company? Even if an AMC is functioning like an appraisal company how does that violate either the letter or the intent of the banking regs or your state's laws?

The prohibition is against allowing the salespeople to control the appraisal. Direct engagement by the lender is not a violation and neither is delegating the engagement to a 3rd party AMC a violation.

Direct lenders don't hold AMC licenses. If you choose to have a business that requires a state license, you should be expected to follow the laws and rules that are behind that license.

Just like appraisers are.

If you aguement is there is no enforcement of the laws, then I 100% agree.

 

[George Hatch]

I saw all that - a company is prohibited from acting as an AMC without registering as such. It's the additional implication you loaded in which appears to be unstated in writing anywhere - that's the citation I'm asking you for.

You know how the law works: that which isn't prohibited is otherwise allowed. So are AMCs prohibited from employing appraisers to appraise properties for either a fee or a salary? Because if they aren't prohibited from doing so then saying they're breaking the law is an untruth.

For example; there's no law prohibiting lenders from employing appraisers on staff, or prohibiting lenders from direct engagement. Saying "they're not an AMC" is a non-sequitur. The lender doesn't need to register with the state in order to operate via direct engagement.

The state can't enforce a law, rule or regulation that doesn't exist.

 

[chad hampton]

Did you want them to say it twice? They defined what an AMC is and they defined who an AMC may engage with to perform appraisals.

The prohibited acts state behaviors and acts that the AMC is not permitted to do with regards to the independent appraisers on their panel. They aren't going to say...."by the way, AMCs can't also be appraisal companies". Come on, you know better. If they did that, then they are no longer an AMC by the definition.

Can I perform breast exams on the street with my license? It's not a prohibited act. Maybe I'll do it, you can be my lawyer when Im caught. Being a lawyer isn't a prohibited act in your state's appraisal laws either.

Just admit your wrong on this one. You know as well as I do it was unthinkable that AMCs would be working as 2 of the 3 parties in the deal. It's not a hard concept.

 

[Bobby Bucks]

This is an interesting thread. Valuation Expo, work, vacation, a bit of both. To each his own, but I must wonder about looking forward to going there unless you work for a company that requires your presence. For those of you who don't have to go and are there just to learn more about the appraisal industry I've got to ask. When you do finally take a few minutes to relax poolside with an adult beverage, are you reading Henry Harrison while soaking up the rays?

 

[George Hatch]

Again, laws define prohibited behavior as pertain to the actions/services they regulate. What the lender cannot do, what the AMC cannot do, what the appraiser cannot do. The prohibition you wish existed does not exist. Any lawyer will argue it that way.

Think it through. How would you even articulate the elements of a violation of State or Federal law on this issue? Each element of a defined offense has to be present in order for it to be charged/prosecuted as an offense.