A college degree tune up?

[Caterina Platt]

As I have typed, retyped, and rethought my response to this post, a light just went on :idea: Our higher ups in these appraisal organizations that are proposing this requirement, what do they spend most of their time doing? When they are not acting as boardmembers, they teach appraisal courses as a general rule. Who stands to benefit from this requirement? Those who would become in demand to teach the courses, right? Getting my point here?

I agree with Pamela, the problems in our industry are not promulgated for the most part by lack of knowledge. It is ethics, and the design of the system in place. We are not addressing these issues through a college degree requirement. The issues in our petition that need to be addressed would rock the entire mortgage world and set it on it's ear. Our 'housing bubble' could burst if many of these shaky deals were not allowed to skate through. Well folks, it's gonna burst now or later. The question is, to what degree would you like the resulting damage to be? No one wants to be responsible for a shake up now that would upset this sector of our economy and truly address the issues. They will wait until the bottom completely falls out and then point the finger at us again I'm afraid.

A requirement for a college degree would expand the need for instructors phenomenally. Bingo, they have job security. If this meant I could go to my local university and take courses in Regression Analysis, Income Capitalization, FHA Inspection, Building Codes, Basic Construction Knowledge, Appraising the Condominium and PUD, etc. You bet I'd be for it. But, unfortunately, the system would probably need about 10 years to get to that stage of refinement, if ever. The demand for these type of specialized courses is already there, but it's not a requirement so only those of us who truly wish to expand our knowledge would be customers. If they aren't required, enrollment is significantly lower and the development of such courses is much less financially feasible. Hence, they don't happen. If the course work were truly applicable in subjects such as those listed above, it may be just the impetus needed to have a broader availability of offerings. If that were the case, I'd be willing to back such a requirement.

While greater availability of specialized courses would be a good result from this requirement, (if per chance, it did play out in such a manner) it still wouldn't fix the true pressure for value and ethics issues.

 

[Larry Lyke]

Actually, I hadn't intended to spark such a thoughtful, erudite conversation. I was just rehashing a morsel that came in over the transom.

But for the most part, I agree. Once an appraiser has acquired the technical skills, it's more about truthworthiness and ethics -- they are not severable.

A parting shot: It's pretty much in the last half century that colleges became technical training institutions so you could get a better job. [Not all bad.] Earlier, one used to go to college to obtain an "education" as in preparatory to living a happy, interesting life.

My own philosophy about furthering one's education, begingning at kindergarten, is to learn so that you can enjoy life -- NOT so that you can get a job! [You can always get a job!]

There's a huge portion of life that's unavailable to a person with limited use of language (written, spoken and spelling); or knowledge of how things work (mechanical); or music (theory, composition and performance, perhaps); and on and on (you name the category).

 

[jim farrelly]

stricter education standards do not make any profession "better" or even make an individual more professional. however, the logic behind the requiring a college degree is simple: in theory college teaches people to write and to think for themselves. take policing as an example. right now there is a movement to require cops to have at least an associate degree. most metropolitan police forces will not hire recruits without at least 2 years of college. in some cities all new hires must have a bachelor's degree and current cops must earn at least an associates degree. studies conducted by the fop, chicago crime commission, and the department of justice have all concluded that the more education a cop has, the less likely he is to participate in brutality, racial bias and profiling, corruption, and graft. cops with a college education tend to question illegitimate authority and have less issues with racial bias. cops with an education are also more prone to report corruption and partipate in erradicating corruption.

i am not suggesting that requiring a college education will eliminate fraud, corruption, or even make the industry more professional. but, it is a start.

DePaul University, Chicago, Illinois has an MBA program associated with
the institute. i forget the specifc details of requirements, curriculum, etc.
all i remember is upon completion of the program u earn an MBA with specilaization in real estate and finance. [/list]

 

[Larry Lyke]

Jim --

Tucked in your well-reasoned post is the phrase "racial bias and profiling."

Like anything that gains public resonance, this phrase now is freighted with new- and extra-meaning, all of which I would imagine everybody reading this Forum is acquainted with.

Even though the phrase is presently being hi-jacked for immediate gains and highlighting of a particular community's issues, I fully -- SUPPORT "profiling."

There are few tasks that can be accomplished without some sort of stratification or enumeration of stats that don't involve profiling.

EXAMPLE: Why wouldn't a cop who has heard on his radio that a very tall white woman driving a pink car with flowers painted on the trunk and the hood with no visible license plates going south on I-275 between Tampa and St. Petersburg not try to pull over that vehicle to talk to the driver. -- "WHY, GOOD MORNING, JANET!"

 

[Karl]

No amount of EDUCATION is gonna instill HONESTY into individual actually the opposite will probablly occur when the Market changes The College Grad is still gonna have to pay for his BMW His 35000 SF House his High Rollin life style that College Grads have to keep up to keep up with there counter parts & 50% of a $325 Appraisal is **** poor pay for all that education. We have a College Grad in our group He ask more questions than anyone else & ALWAYS has at least 5 Comps. I say 5 comps is a sign of insecurity. & he works almost 24 7 just to keep ahead of his Bills. Plus pay back for the education

 

[bradellis]

Caterina,

I can speak only for the NAIFA board/officers. There are 4 officers. ALL OF THEM ARE PRACTICING APPRAISERS- full time. 3 do teach, but their teching activity is SEVERELY hampered by their time involved in the associations.

I am on the board. About half the board are instructors. I have taught ONE course in the last 2 years- a one day USPAP update, along with a 4 hour seminar twice at our ed conference. I have turned down 3 more assignments- just do not have the time.

NO. This is NOT about leadership instructors getting more teaching assignments. Most of us who are instructors turn down many more assignments already than we could handle.

This is about whether or not we are to be a profession.

Brad Ellis, IFA,RAA

 

[Caterina Platt]

Thanks for your reply Brad.

I have no problems with raising the bar for our profession. As I stated, I personally would love the opportunity to take a broader availability of courses that could result from such a requirement. I am not chiding those who teach as part of their careers. It is a blessing to have those of you willing to share your vast knowledge and improve the profession.

My point is that those proposing such requirements are often the instructors and, no doubt, it would increase the demand for more instructors. You can't argue that it wouldn't be a good day for those who earn at least part of their income teaching appraisal courses. Just a hunch, but the law of economics would tell me some of these board members would find a few more hours in their schedules. At the same time, the number of new appraisers would probably decrease due to the requirements. In some way or another, we all may feel some benefit from this type of movement in our industry.

My problem is that the system faults which foster number hitters and lender pressure would not be addressed by this movement. The good ones will teach these courses, and those of us aspiring will take them. The current number hitters will probably still sleep through the required CE and USPAP. I have not seen a response from the powers that be in our industry's major organizations that directly addresses the issues in our petition. As many have stated, you can't educate ethics. So what must we do with this 'honor system' that obviously is being flat out ignored by many of our peers? I am afraid we are side stepping the real problem.

 

[Larry Lyke]

We're pretty far afield now, but I'm game.

I think a college education is a good way to go for everybody -- as in more education. I have never stopped learning. Neither have you actually, whether you think so or not. However, you may have slowed down.

My 8th teacher once said something I just knew was truly profound when I heard it. Something like: No matter what your path in life, everybody is an expert on something. As in, everybody knows more about one subject than they do any other.

Now that has real application. Primarily, "college education" is used for professions that lead to academe, the classics, arts (liberal arts and the healing arts), music, etc. When in fact automobile repair requires vast knowledge and know-how -- but many of those working in that business, just like appraising, obtain much of their education OJT.

But, if that is the sum of your education and/or continuing education, there's probably holes in it, if filled with just the right stuff, could benefit you immensely.

A lot of what I see missing in appraising is the confidence to assert one's knowledge because we feel unsure of our stand. Everytime a neophyte UW asks a question, the appraiser quivers. I propose a course in rhetoric for appraisers. Assertiveness, if you will.

Do it Yale-style: Shake a cup of broken bones, choose one, read it and draw a question card. If you are drunk and get even close to the answer, you score one and get to flog an UW after you obtain a score of 18.

Ethics: Have you seen anybody on the front page of your newspaper that's high profile and going to jail who doesn't have a college education?!

Here's the major stories in my neighborhod in the current month: 14 priests for having sex with kids; 1 appellate court judge for stealing $300,000 from a retarded girl's remainder estate; a couple of appraisers and several mortgage brokers; disbarred lawyer. The Minneapolis City Council has been providing full employment for the FBI for the past 10 months. Even murder is moving up the food chain.

Ethics is never an issue because all of these defendants claim to be in/from loving family relationships and very religious. The flat out implication is that a religous person is ethical! That they get their ethics from religion. Which came first, religion or ethics?

Stop, Larry, stop.

 

[Charlotte Dixon]

Spielberg to graduate from college

Director says getting his degree is ‘thank you’ to his parents

By Sarah Tippit


LOS ANGELES (Variety), May 14 — He’s won Oscars and his films have made millions upon millions of dollars and now — after what he calls the “longest post-production schedule” of his life — Steven Spielberg is going to achieve an honor that has eluded him: He is going to graduate from college. Spielberg, 55, says he will graduate from California State University at Long Beach, with a major in film and electronic arts, on May 31, more than three decades after dropping out to pursue his now legendary Hollywood career.


Timely news here, I would say

 

[Mike Garrett RAA]

Requiring a degree in business with a minor in real estate and/or appraisal would most likely affect me as a facilitator of appraisal class. I am still in favor of it.