ANSI confusion...

[Basically Rectangular]

Well, we are talking about the ANSI standard. If the space under the stairwell is closed off and made into a closet or bathroom, then the 7-5' high requirements take force - and some of that space will be discarded - most likely the space behind the rear wall of said room.

But, ANSI/FNMA has this predicament with the basement, where they are apparently contradicting themselves through obfuscated semantics, saying at the same time the stair descending into the basement is both above grade and below grade. You can't have it both ways. Naturally, in the flow of things, what they mean to say is that the stairs descending into a basement is to be treated as an exception to their definition of "below grade". The stair descending into the basement is to be treated as above grade, even though it is below grade. So it is both above grade and below grade, although of course it really is only below grade. ANSI wants the stairs treated as above grade and its credit is clear and unequivocal in that regard. FNMA screwed up and didn't provide a clear statement on the issue. FNMA screws up a lot.

ANSI starts with the top floor and works down. In the case that all staircases are open underneath, it works out just fine, - well as long as you can live the the concept that the area of the stairs descending into a completely below grade basement is to be treated as part of the finished living area of the above grade main floor. Essentially, I find that quite acceptable and not a problem.

FNMA needs to meditate on this issue for a while.

I thought the ANSI sloped ceiling standard applied to the slope of ceiling heights, not staircases. If the ceiling height above the staircase is within ANSI GLA standard, then why wouldn't that area be included?

 

[RCA]

I thought the ANSI sloped ceiling standard applied to the slope of ceiling heights, not staircases. If the ceiling height above the staircase is within ANSI GLA standard, then why wouldn't that area be included?

A room is a room. I see lots of rooms under staircases. Closets and half-baths are the most common. And they all of ceilings - believe it or not.

 

[NancyR623]

So the ANSI standard states "staircases are included in the GLA of the floor from which they descend."

Looking for example at a two story colonial with no basement, here are my issues:

A) this doesn't make much practical sense, but more importantly,
B) does this mean they are NOT counted on the floor TO which they descend, ie the main floor? And if this is true, then would not ALL main floor measurements be off? We measure exterior perimeter, so staircases are automatically included in that, as is everything else, right? Would every sketch then show a 'hole' in the main living area where the staircase is?
C) if they do still count on the main floor, why would anyone want to double count staircase area?

Has anyone seen clarification on these issues from a reliable source?

Took a class on this yesterday. They do not count on the floor to which they descend, but count on the floor from which they descend. If there is a staircase from the first floor to the basement, that counts for the first floor GLA so in many cases, that staircase makes up the difference. But in a case where there is no staircase to the basement (slab) then yes, the sketch is to show a hole in the main living area. Ugh! I live in an area where many homes built in the 1700s-1800s with low ceilings on 2nd floor. Per ANSI Z765-2021, if the ceiling height is not 7', I cannot count that floor in GLA. Gets sticky with Cape COD (1/2 story on second level) because at least 50% of the area must have 7' to 5' and if not, the entire floor cannot be counted in GLA. The ANSI guide can be purchased from Home Innovations Research Lab. Measurements have to be rounded to the nearest 1/10 of a foot. And there are both statements and declarations that we need to include in the reports as of 4/1 for Fannie Mae appraisals.

 

[lefty2cox]

If the goal here is consistency, they're heading in the opposite direction. I predict confusion, misleading conclusions, and all-out bedlam. I give it a month.

 

[residentialguy]

....

 

[shrubberyvaluation]

Took a class on this yesterday. They do not count on the floor to which they descend, but count on the floor from which they descend. If there is a staircase from the first floor to the basement, that counts for the first floor GLA so in many cases, that staircase makes up the difference. But in a case where there is no staircase to the basement (slab) then yes, the sketch is to show a hole in the main living area. Ugh! I live in an area where many homes built in the 1700s-1800s with low ceilings on 2nd floor. Per ANSI Z765-2021, if the ceiling height is not 7', I cannot count that floor in GLA. Gets sticky with Cape COD (1/2 story on second level) because at least 50% of the area must have 7' to 5' and if not, the entire floor cannot be counted in GLA. The ANSI guide can be purchased from Home Innovations Research Lab. Measurements have to be rounded to the nearest 1/10 of a foot. And there are both statements and declarations that we need to include in the reports as of 4/1 for Fannie Mae appraisals.

It seems rather pointless to me, you are going to have more errors trying to back out staircases on the floor they lead to from the tax records. It only serves to add confusion to the intended user(s).

 

[Dublin ohio]

because at least 50% of the area must have 7' to 5' and if not, the entire floor cannot be counted in GLA.

I don't read it that way. I see it as including the area that conforms as GLA. The rest of it would be listed as a separate line item. If necessary. It's poorly written. But it does not explicitly say you don't count any of it because part of it doesn't conform. Makes no sense at all

 

[Elliott]

So if I understand ANSI correctly, the 4x12 stairway on the first floor would be excluded from the first floor and the open space of about 6x8 where it is open to the foyer below would also be removed, so a total of 96 sf should be subracted. Should I inform the Assessor and Realtors they are overstating ANSI Finished area by 96 sf? I can see an extra 1 hour of time explaining that to realtors, owners, and of course a ROV with pressure from the AMC. Its a 5% difference.

 

[shrubberyvaluation]

So if I understand ANSI correctly, the 4x12 stairway on the first floor would be excluded from the first floor and the open space of about 6x8 where it is open to the foyer below would also be removed, so a total of 96 sf should be subracted. Should I inform the Assessor and Realtors they are overstating ANSI Finished area by 96 sf? I can see an extra 1 hour of time explaining that to realtors, owners, and of course a ROV with pressure from the AMC. Its a 5% difference.




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The thing is I'm pretty sure the open foyer is there because of a typical buyer's preferred that over the little extra square footage above it, at least when it was built. Nitpicking over these things and trying to adjust the comps for this is going to lead to more errors than more accuracy. Its different than an open to below family room that is 300-400sq.ft.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

But in a case where there is no staircase to the basement (slab) then yes, the sketch is to show a hole in the main living area. Ugh!

Nope nope nope...I don't think that is what ANSI says.