ANSI sketch requirements

[djd09]

What ANSI requires is that the area of the stairs/landings be included in the size for the level from which they descend.

Look at figure 2 in the ANSI standard. The area to be included is shown in red dashed lines, and that includes the area of the stairs, which I have highlighted in yellow below. In order for the auto calculation in the sketching software to be correct, the sketch would need to include the stair area (yellow highlighted area). Some also insert a graphic to show the stairs, others just include the area and insert "stairs" in that area. The ANSI standard does not stipulate doing it one way or another.

View attachment 79231

i thought the inspection was not important...so unimportant that USPAP does not even have measuring instructions but here you are a flip flop fish

 

[DWiley]

i thought the inspection was not important...so unimportant that USPAP does not even have measuring instructions but here you are a flip flop fish

This is a discussion on the proper application of the ANSI standard, not a discussion on the need for personal inspection.

 

[djd09]

This is a discussion on the proper application of the ANSI standard, not a discussion on the need for personal inspection.

USPAP does not require a single measurement but that does not fit into this discussion because obedience is not enough

 

[DWiley]

USPAP does not require a single measurement…

No, it doesn’t. It does, however, require adhering to the SOW RULE.

 

[djd09]

No, it doesn’t. It does, however, require adhering to the SOW RULE.

ha...it also says not to be misleading...and not the brokers, realtors, borrowers, or even your waivers use ansi so carrying on comrade

 

[djd09]

nobody talks about how the robot is programmed when discussing ansi

 

[RCA]

What ANSI requires is that the area of the stairs/landings be included in the size for the level from which they descend.

Look at figure 2 in the ANSI standard. The area to be included is shown in red dashed lines, and that includes the area of the stairs, which I have highlighted in yellow below. In order for the auto calculation in the sketching software to be correct, the sketch would need to include the stair area (yellow highlighted area). Some also insert a graphic to show the stairs, others just include the area and insert "stairs" in that area. The ANSI standard does not stipulate doing it one way or another.

View attachment 79231

When we talk about what a standard requires, then we are talking about what it requires under each and every set of conditions. If we state that a standard does not require something, then that is to mean it never requires that something under any set of conditions.

So, it is imperative to mention any conditions that might effect standard requirements.

Section 3.5, "Openings to the Floor Below" calculations can be quite complex. The opening is often much larger than the stair area. To properly support your calculations and enable CAD calculations, you will have to precisely show the opening and the stairs. The opening area will be deducted and the stair landing and step area added back in. The shape of the stairs may be irregular, circular or curved. In fact it may be a narrow circular stair that wraps around more than once. In some cases, to clearly support your calculations, you will need some intricate and detailed diagrams. While the standard does not verbally insist that steps need to be drawn, - or how they are drawn, an outline of the area does have to be drawn, one way or another to either make your calculations clear or enable the CAD program to do the calculations.

You say: '... others just include the area and insert "stairs" in that area' - which as stated is what some appraisers do, but has nothing to do with what the ANSI standard requires.

There are also sections 3.7, 4.4 and 4.6 where exceptions are described.

Clearly, there are cases where the opening on the overhead floor of a stairs is exactly the same as the area of the stairs. We should be able to state that and not have to make any deductions or addition to the overhead floor area. The question remains as to whether there are any implied obligations to outline the stairwell area on the overhead floor. IF on the floor below, there are adjustments to be made for the area under the stairs (such as an inclosed room under the stairs with a slopped ceiling) then I would argue there should be more than just "STAIRS" displayed on the overhead floor. There should also be at least an outline to make the more detailed drawing on the floor below understandable.

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OK. IN SHORT. I would argue that it is not good to be lazy on these things. PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT. The appraiser is better off to learn to do these drawings more or less the same every time, to opt for detail and get in the habit of doing the drawings such that they will fulfill the requirements of the standard under all possible conditions. That way he does not have to worry about all the detailed exceptions in each and every case - where he could surely make errors - nor the possibility of misunderstandings. Just develop habits that work for all requirements. Develop speed and habit - and create your own standard on top of the ANSI (or other required standards) that make you fast and perfect. That simplifies the work for reviewers and other users of your reports. It will most likely improve your productivity with time.

 

[djd09]

When we talk about what a standard requires, then we are talking about what it requires under each and every set of conditions. If we state that a standard does not require something, then that is to mean it never requires that something under any set of conditions.

So, it is imperative to mention any conditions that might effect standard requirements.

Section 3.5, "Openings to the Floor Below" calculations can be quite complex. The opening is often much larger than the stair area. To properly support your calculations and enable CAD calculations, you will have to precisely show the opening and the stairs. The opening area will be deducted and the stair landing and step area added back in. The shape of the stairs may be irregular, circular or curved. In fact it may be a narrow circular stair that wraps around more than once. In some cases, to clearly support your calculations, you will need some intricate and detailed diagrams. While the standard does not verbally insist that steps need to be drawn, - or how they are drawn, an outline of the area does have to be drawn, one way or another to either make your calculations clear or enable the CAD program to do the calculations.

You say: '... others just include the area and insert "stairs" in that area' - which as stated is what some appraisers do, but has nothing to do with what the ANSI standard requires.

There are also sections 3.7, 4.4 and 4.6 where exceptions are described.

Clearly, there are cases where the opening on the overhead floor of a stairs is exactly the same as the area of the stairs. We should be able to state that and not have to make any deductions or addition to the overhead floor area. The question remains as to whether there are any implied obligations to outline the stairwell area on the overhead floor. IF on the floor below, there are adjustments to be made for the area under the stairs (such as an inclosed room under the stairs with a slopped ceiling) then I would argue there should be more than just "STAIRS" displayed on the overhead floor. There should also be at least an outline to make the more detailed drawing on the floor below understandable.

====
OK. IN SHORT. I would argue that it is not good to be lazy on these things. PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT. The appraiser is better off to learn to do these drawings more or less the same every time, to opt for detail and get in the habit of doing the drawings such that they will fulfill the requirements of the standard under all possible conditions. That way he does not have to worry about all the detailed exceptions in each and every case - where he could surely make errors - nor the possibility of misunderstandings. Just develop habits that work for all requirements. Develop speed and habit - and create your own standard on top of the ANSI (or other required standards) that make you fast and perfect. That simplifies the work for reviewers and other users of your reports. It will most likely improve your productivity with time.

the so called mathematician needs measuring instructions

 

[glenn walker]

USPAP does not require a single measurement but that does not fit into this discussion because obedience is not enough

And USPAP has nothing about doing Physical Inspections either LOL

 

[djd09]

And USPAP has nothing about doing Physical Inspections either LOL

again, slowly, misleading is a crime...