ANSI Staircases

[Fernando]

I am glad I was not the only one confused by this new nonsense. I have always removed the stair SqFt from the 2nd story as it seemed logical to me for the 1st floor to be the most complete. But perhaps that is just me. Now the new standard is declaring the opposite. This seems to present a sketching challenge. My mentor and I use ACI Sketch and if there is a feature that allows you to indicate the stairs AND ask it to remove that SqFt from the first story (so that it gets included as part of the 2nd story), we have not found it. As others have indicated, this gets stickier if you are having to split that up for area beneath the stairs. In my experience, if this exists... it it typically just a small closet.

Before if there was a useable small closet under the stairs, I include 1st and 2nd area of staircase. I had to consider the situation as an appraiser should.
With ANSI, I don't need to think so hard and include both stories, even a caveman can do it.

 

[Tiffany Gibbons]

In the past, I'd seen some appraisers ignored the stairs. I thought they were lazy in not making effort to decide which part of stairs to include or not.
ANZI makes it easy on us to ignore the stairs. Now we have a Fannie standard in which we can ignore the stores. Appraisers don't need to make the judgement.
Another playbook for everyone to become appraisers.

I don't think it was ever meant to be the staircase measurement, I think it was always those Grandiose (as if I. 2200 sf of space with 150 feet if 2 story with a "plant shelf") 2 story Foyers which Assessors always claimed they couldn't possibly know that wasn't GLA from the exterior and which we can all hopefully agree post McMansion 90's was a bad Design idea of wasted space much like the "Vaulted plant shelf" area of my "luxury owners bath" I can't wait to demolish, circa 1994. Bye 1990s. Yes, the music was better, floor plans not so much. Trend is space saving now, roll out space drawers and garbage bins, etc. It was always just 150-200 square feet to play with for assessors and therefore realtors. I can't remember any appraiser I ever worked with both public servants and independent appraisers ever counting the entire 2nd story of a 2 story Entrance, and I never have, but let's leave that up to ANSI, not common sense.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

can't remember any appraiser I ever worked with both public servants and independent appraisers ever counting the entire 2nd story of a 2 story Entrance,

You never worked with me. If a two story has with no basement has a footprint of 1200 SF with 1200 SF footprint on top of the 1st floor it is 2,400 SF...I do not remove the stairs. Never have, never knew any appraiser around here to do so. OTOH, an 18' ceiling in the "great" room, that's not GLA of the second floor either.

I don't know why stairs are such a sticking point. Do we remove the hotwater closet? The W/D closest, the closests on the end of halls, HVAC space? Where do you stop with that process?

 

[Tiffany Gibbons]

You never worked with me. If a two story has with no basement has a footprint of 1200 SF with 1200 SF footprint on top of the 1st floor it is 2,400 SF...I do not remove the stairs. Never have, never knew any appraiser around here to do so. OTOH, an 18' ceiling in the "great" room, that's not GLA of the second floor either.

I don't know why stairs are such a sticking point. Do we remove the hotwater closet? The W/D closest, the closests on the end of halls, HVAC space? Where do you stop with that process?

Not talking about the staircase itself. I meant the rest of the "2 story" portion of the space. Thanks for mansplaining though. Consider me chastised. Count 'em 3 times if it makes you happy, it can't be that bad. Sheryl Crow, from Kennett MO (aka Piggott, AR).

 

[Elliott]

The vaporizing of 50 to 75 sf of staircases will rank right up there with the French Mansard roof. Can't wait for California BofE complaints based on square foot reductions.

 

[CCAAMO]

Not talking about the staircase itself. I meant the rest of the "2 story" portion of the space. Thanks for mansplaining though. Consider me chastised. Count 'em 3 times if it makes you happy, it can't be that bad. Sheryl Crow, from Kennett MO (aka Piggott, AR).

I don't know any appraiser who ever counted the open area which was not part of the stairs in the 2nd floor measurement. ANSI says the same so i don't see the problem

 

[Tiffany Gibbons]

I don't know any appraiser who ever counted the open area which was not part of the stairs in the 2nd floor measurement. ANSI says the same so i don't see the problem

I don't think most licensed appraisers ever did. It was included in Assessor's square footage (assessor employees don't usually gain entrance and use permit info and exterior measurements). Realtors would use the Assessor's square footage, adding 75 to 150 feet of 2 story area. Same as Terrell said with 2 story family rooms. I just did a house that had 400 sf added that was not there, no upper story over the family room. The MLS still has the wrong square footage in the sold listing too. To clarify, like Terrell, I have never subtracted out the stairs on a straight up 2 story (no open 2 story area).

 

[CCAAMO]

The Assessor's Records, at least where I am at, are many times incorrect. Many times the builder submitted the wrong plans for the home in a tract, or there were bonus room options, etc. which were the assessor's records did not reflect. MLS is a regurgitation of the assessor's records as the agents do not measure the home and even if they known it is larger or smaller than what the Assessor shows, the are so scared of being sued they go with the Assessor's records.

 

[Tiffany Gibbons]

You never worked with me. If a two story has with no basement has a footprint of 1200 SF with 1200 SF footprint on top of the 1st floor it is 2,400 SF...I do not remove the stairs. Never have, never knew any appraiser around here to do so. OTOH, an 18' ceiling in the "great" room, that's not GLA of the second floor either.

I don't know why stairs are such a sticking point. Do we remove the hotwater closet? The W/D closest, the closests on the end of halls, HVAC space? Where do you stop with that process?

I was thinking more like that bail bondsman's mansion you posted a picture of last week and the discrepancy you found with the records, not like what you described above. I am agreeing with you.

 

[Carnivore]

Look at 3.5 and 3.7 in the standard.

3.5 The stairs and landing are counted on the area from which they descend.
3.7 There is no minimum ceiling height for area beneath stairs

In combination these effectively and practically mean that the stairs are counted on both floors. The standard does not state it that way, but that is the practical effect. In a standard 2 story home, the stairs and landing that descend from the second floor are included in the second floor square footage. Then the area beneath the stairs, regardless of the ceiling height, is counted on the first floor. The net effect is including the stairs on both levels.

I agree. I find it interesting how they said it. I think they said it this way because many times its a two story open foyer it is oblivious what you don't count towards the 2nd floor. If you can't stand on it ain't counted.

Here is a good one: Many older homes have a 2nd floor that is not finished(attic) The Stair case is very steep. People finish those attic areas into so called livable space. They even duct it for heat/air. Dimensionally width/height it may seem to qualify as GLA

What they don't mention is this : https://blog.lapeyrestair.com/stair...ext=What is code for rise," run (tread depth).