Any appraisers here also real estate agent?

[Bobby Bucks]

Not sure of any salesperson selling anything that would stress the negatives of their product. You wouldn't see a car salesman going on about his product's sluggish handling or poor gas mileage, etc.

Caveat emptor--and have your own agent to look after your interests.

Buyer's agent, except for those who have been conditioned to work for the owner regardless of agency.

 

[prasercat]

It is understandable that the reason the photos of the negative aspects of the home were left out of the photo tour, like dated bathrooms, the outside of the house, but 5 different angled shots of the remodeled kitchen were taken, is that the listing agent is representing the interests of the seller.

Certainly, I do believe most people don't fully get the disadvantage of working with sale agents or brokers in a dual agency or transaction agency capacity. They are taken in by the "professional image" and personable communications.

A similar situation exists when someone asks an appraiser what the value of a property is "off the cuff", but we can't do that without conforming to proper due diligence and reporting and filing requirements, because people will naturally trust in the appraiser's opinion no matter how carelessly it is given (which could then lead to a lawsuit against the appraiser when the person receiving that "off the cuff" information relied upon it with an adverse outcome). The NAR & NAHB has obviously much more lobbying power than appraisers, hence, they can use "puffery", dual agency and transaction agency.

The basic problem is: People expect professionals to work for their interests (which can be exploited in the real estate sales profession); whereas, while they also expect this "instinctively" with appraisers, unlike real estate sales, the personal damages for allowing such a misconception, or inaccuracies in information, is often very damaging to the appraiser (such as, fines, loss of license, black listing, hanging in the town center at noon, etc.) For a real estate sales person, it is likely just a pat on the back for a job well done.

It should simply be written that any agent representing a buyer must represent the sole interests of the buyer and with the same diligence as a listing agent represents a seller.

Given the confusion regarding dual agency and its ethical landmines, I will not be doing any of those transactions. I'll only do transaction agency by spelling out, from my own mouth, that I cannot represent anyone's interests in the transaction in that capacity (in addition to any signed legal disclaimers).

 

[normando]

Dual Agency is a tricky and I usually see the purchase price below market because agent gets both commission.
Wearing an agent hat, you concentrate on existing listings available trying to close a deal for your client.
Wearing an appraisal hat, you concentrate on what sold putting more emphasis on past historical data.

 

[J Grant]

Speaking of "puffery"...

My subject had a recently expired listing...subject is an ATTACHED VILLA, they listed it as a single family (it feels like a SF with a yard and pool, but it is attached and should have been listed as such, Townhome section in MLS for attached villas)

Next little gem...listed at 2700 sf, due to non permitted enclosed porch and non permitted enclosed garage. The actual living area without these (poorly done) non permitted enclosures is aprox 2000 sf.

I hope at some point there is a big class action suit by buyers that would finally make NAR sit up and take notice. I don't know of any other profession that this kind of absolute nonsense involving handling large scale investments worth hundreds of thousands of dollars that can compromise a family's future would be tolerated.

My niece is a cashier at a food market and will be FIRED if in a given time frame her cash register is a few $ off. Yet these clowns who call themselves RE professionals can cheat, lie, get people into serious financial trouble and lose their life savings because of poor advice and there is no recourse against them. La de da, get up tomorrow and host an open house.

 

[prasercat]

Speaking of "puffery"...
Excerpt...... - Yet these clowns who call themselves RE professionals can cheat, lie, get people into serious financial trouble and lose their life savings because of poor advice and there is no recourse against them. La de da, get up tomorrow and host an open house.

It was certainly odd being at a Wall Street Brokerage firm looking out for my clients, windows and orphans interests. While there may be a few odd balls out there, like me, most successful people that survive in such a revolving door, exploitative, back stabbing, cut throat, suck the newbie dry of contacts and then kick em' out the door, "sales" businesses are not good people. In any animal species, including human, there are always some that are inclined to eat their own young.

This is why Wall Street is such a scum pot, because scum is promoted to the highest levels. Certain professions are a magnate for these special people: Those people that have no moral compass, that are only interested in and only confer value to things that in some way will benefit them. If it doesn't benefit them, it is invisible.

I think it is important to stress that the negative impacts to others from their actions are either invisible to them or that it makes them feel better about themselves.

Unfortunately, these special people are often in sales, likely because, you don't have to be very smart or educated to make good money, and for many, pulling one over another makes them feel smarter or better than the other person, whereas, if they both had a win-win, it just wouldn't be so satisfying for them.

However, there is another way to sell and to market, and it is ethical, it is win-win, it is doing the job that people expect according to your title or service indicates (not just using them as a front), it is measuring success not only by the impact one's efforts are having in creating one's own financial success, but also in how it impacts one's clients or customers. This is normally the BS realm of commercials, however, it can happen. Although, I doubt that it could ever happen in a large company, since the scum gets too powerful in large organizations, and definitely when they go public, since then there could only be a simple profit motive with a soulless board of directors.

The sellers of BS are too powerful in this world to be reprimanded in mass, it will never happen.

However, in this day and age of twitter, facebook, google, online reputations, email, etc, the BS guys are having to be a bit more careful.

PHEW! That being said, there are decent people working in real estate sales, and like most any profession, a few will be REALLY decent.

However, there is a strong initiative in sales organizations to separate one's activities from its effects or dehumanize them. They ask sales agents to use scripts, so they don't even need to invest themselves in what they are saying or who they are talking to, just repeat the words to get the desired responses. They create internal games of competition where the parameters of success are such things as: the number of calls made per unit time, the number of commitments received, the number of sales per unit time, etc, which aren't bad in themselves; however, they should rarely ever compete on metrics that pertain to what their activities are doing to those they interact with in their sale activities. Is it better to spend so little time with a stranger on the phone that one only had time to talk and/or read a script and not listen? Is it right to make a bad recommendation only to get a sale?, etc. The people working in sales organization often don't last, they get burned out. Most are scared and just trying to make ends meet, and focus on meeting their quota for the day to keep themselves fed and their boss from firing them. They play the games, read the scripts and whatever they are told to do, but not one discussion about integrity, about doing the "right thing". Its all about numbers, making the quota,etc - Its the mechanization of immorality, separating the individual from the real effects of their activities.

 

[normando]

Inexperienced agents get in trouble because they state things they shouldn't. All agents should only indicate gross area from tax records and put disclaimer to let buyer verify square footage. Even appraisers have small differences in measurements.
Also, as an appraiser, sometimes you don't know whether to use condo or 1004 form unless you look at legal description. Remember townhome is a style.
An attorney one time said be careful to state legal unit because even though subject may have a legal unit, the construction may not be permitted especially not up to current building codes.
The more experienced agents are careful in what they disclose. Prevention of misunderstanding is their forte.

 

[J Grant]

Hey Praser, soon as I finished writing my post, I thought, "wall St"...Stock brokerage. Actually though at least the investment advisors were more straight forward than the realtors, though I imagine the traders are more cutthroat...professional gamblers as it were.

The average RE agents is not a "bad" person...they usually have no other way of making the kind of money they can make in RE sales and like what they do. Some are quite decent and look after their clients . For the most part, they are in denial, and have no idea that "stretching the truth" can hurt people as much as it does. By our standards, they are poorly trained and most would never make it if they had to earn a salary at what they do rather than work on commission.

The office superstars , the ones who carry the office and sell high volume are a breed apart. I knew a few and they were almost interchangeable. Pretty much eat, and slept RE sales 24/7, very tough, no nonsense, selling /listing machines.

 

[TC]

You guys that beat up on RE agents must be the most honest people in the world.

 

[J Grant]

It's all relative, TC...and it pertains to the profession, not how any of us conduct ourselves in our personal lives...those of us who have been licensed agents and spent time selling have at least some first hand insight.

You term it "beating up on them", others call it describing reality of differences between the two professions.

 

[prasercat]

So here is an example of a conundrum with moral ramifications:

You find yourself being a transaction agent. You are familiar with the property and noticed a serious crack in the foundation, troubling settlement in the surrounding homes at a significant percentage since the subdivision is built on subsiding soils/rock.

Do you simply:

1) Provide the services of a transaction agent, get the disclaimers signed and state that you cannot represent any party in this transaction as a transaction agent/broker and close the deal.

or

2) Do as in #1, but also state and have in writing that the individual signs.

A) "While I can't represent you in this transaction, you may consider contracting the services of a home inspector prior to your purchase and making your offer contingent upon the satisfactory results of a home inspection. Contracting the services of a home inspector prior to purchase is a common practice"

B) "If you wish to contract a buyer's agent to represent your interests in this transaction, you should not sign any documents at this time but only after you contract a buyer's agent and work through your buyer's agent"

The bad - It may kill the deal or at least complicate and delay the close or lead to a less favorable sales price for the seller and lower commissions on the lower sales price.

The good - You have covered your moral duty (not legal duty) to the buying party, and as an added bonus, you have decreased your legal liability to zero.

Whether or not one knows of any defects, it would seem to be the right thing to do for all transactions involving transaction brokerage (or dual agency).