Appraisal Buzz Interview With Don Kelly

[PL1957]

Originally posted by Francois K. Gregoire@May 5 2005, 05:01 PM
An Ohio appraiser, Certified and in good standing in his home state, had a conviction while an appraiser for three counts of sexual contact with a minor. This is a felony in Ohio as it is in Florida. It did not affect his good standing as an appraiser in Ohio. After disclosure of these crimes on his Florida application, he has been denied a Florida Certification, twice. States would not have that option under the language proposed.

Just to play devil's advocate, how does this affect the person's ability to appraise real estate?

If a person was found guilty of a crime that is totally unrelated to his profession and served whatever judicial penalty was deemed appropriate, why shouldn't he be able to make a living?

In Florida, if an MD is guilty of tax evasion, does he lose his medical license? Should he? How does it affect his medical knowledge/expertise?

I think the main reason for pushing for easier reciprocity is the fact that numerous states are playing games with temporary permits and certifications for out of state appraisers. How many states are now requiring a 1 or 2 hour license law class that must be taken in the state? Usually, the only people to benefit from these classes are the outfits putting them on.

 

[George Hatch]

The state grants a license to the individual for an occupation where the licensee enters into people's homes. I can easily understand - and agree with - the idea that the state wants to protect the public, and wants to avoid any responsibility for licensing and approving individuals who have been convicted of certain types of crimes, especially crimes of violence, to do this kind of work.

I'd say that if the individual wants to get into this business or stay in it, they'll just have to restrain their criminal urges. If they can't do that then maybe they should move onto a different line of work. Perhaps they should run for elected office.

 

[PL1957]

Originally posted by George Hatch@May 5 2005, 05:46 PM
The state grants a license to the individual for an occupation where the licensee enters into people's homes. I can easily understand - and agree with - the idea that the state wants to protect the public, and wants to avoid any responsibility for licensing and approving individuals who have been convicted of certain types of crimes, especially crimes of violence, to do this kind of work.

George, I'd agree with you if the state was actually doing that. Do the same rules apply for plumbers? How about mailmen? Pizza delivery guys?

How long should an individual have to pay for a past crime? 10 years after he gets out of jail? 20 years? 30 years?

Is it a different situation if the felon was 18 and the victim 16? How about if the felon was 35 and the victim 6?

Where does "big brother" start and where does it end?

 

[Couch Potato]

Originally posted by PL Norusis@May 5 2005, 05:36 PM
Just to play devil's advocate, how does this affect the person's ability to appraise real estate?

If a person was found guilty of a crime that is totally unrelated to his profession and served whatever judicial penalty was deemed appropriate, why shouldn't he be able to make a living?

The effect on appraisal is that appraisers go into people's homes. Do you want a convicted child molester or rapist in your home with your wife or children? Yes there are some crimes that would be of little consequence. If they stole a car twenty years ago, I would not think it would matter much. One DUI would not be a big deal (three would raise questions).

 

[Francois K. Gregoire]

Originally posted by PL Norusis@May 5 2005, 05:36 PM
Just to play devil's advocate, how does this affect the person's ability to appraise real estate?

If a person was found guilty of a crime that is totally unrelated to his profession and served whatever judicial penalty was deemed appropriate, why shouldn't he be able to make a living?

PL,

You ask a very good question. It happens to be one the Florida Real Estate Appraisal Board wrestles with every time an applicant with a criminal background appears before them as a result of their disclosure. The FREAB is charged with the responsibility of following the law, and the Florida Legislature has given them direction.

475.615 Qualifications for registration, licensure, or certification.--

(6) All applicants must be competent and qualified to make real estate appraisals with safety to those with whom they may undertake a relationship of trust and confidence and the general public. If any applicant has been denied registration, licensure, or certification, or has been disbarred, or the applicant's registration, license, or certificate to practice or conduct any regulated profession, business, or vocation has been revoked or suspended by this or any other state, any nation, or any possession or district of the United States, or any court or lawful agency thereof, because of any conduct or practices which would have warranted a like result under this part, or if the applicant has been guilty of conduct or practices in this state or elsewhere which would have been grounds for disciplining her or his registration, license, or certification under this part had the applicant then been a registered trainee appraiser or a licensed or certified appraiser, the applicant shall be deemed not to be qualified unless, because of lapse of time and subsequent good conduct and reputation, or other reason deemed sufficient, it appears to the board that the interest of the public is not likely to be endangered by the granting of registration, licensure, or certification.

So, PL, could you, in good conscience, make a decision to grant a license to an individual knowing a sexually related crime with a minor was committed by them within the past three years? How about if the victim was 16? What if the victim was under ten?

What if the crime was indecent exposure? Lewd behaviour? How about attempted murder? Firing a weapon into an occupied vehicle? Firing a weapon into an occupied dwelling? How about flying 500 pounds of cocaine into the country? The list goes on.

Licensing is a privlege, not a right. The responsibility of the FREAB is to protect the public. The changes in the law proposed by H.R. 1295 prevent the state regulatory boards from excercising their judgment (judgement), and in its place, substitutes the lowest standard an applicant might be able to find. In addition, the rights and responsibility of a state's elected representatives are usurped by the Federal Government.

If Uncle Sam wants to further lower the bar, let them take over the entire licensing and certificaiton program. Let someone else explain how child molesters, flashers, thugs and drug importers were able to obtain a license to enter the homes of unsuspecting citizens.

In Florida, if an MD is guilty of tax evasion, does he lose his medical license? Should he? How does it affect his medical knowledge/expertise?

Not sure about doctors, and to be honest, I'm not really concerned. There are too many things directly related to my profession on my mind. Character, ethics and the good reputation of appraisers, to name a few.

 

[Francois K. Gregoire]

Originally posted by George Hatch@May 5 2005, 05:46 PM
I'd say that if the individual wants to get into this business or stay in it, they'll just have to restrain their criminal urges. If they can't do that then maybe they should move onto a different line of work. Perhaps they should run for elected office.

Best line yet!! Thanks for the grins

 

[Peter LeQuire]

At the risk of offending my brethern (and sistern) in the Appraisal Institute, my take on the temporary practice issue is that it will primarily affect those appraisers who do commercial work in many markets. It is obviously to the advantage of appraisers with multi state clients to be able to work in the states where the clients' properties are. As a residential guy, not in a multi-state metro area (such as DC and environs), I'm not too rattled about not being able to drive to Kentucky or Alabama do appraise a house, but I know that there are residential appraisers for whom multi state licensing is a hassle. But the impetus for this is for the traveling commercial appraisers. This is, IMNTBH opinion, but another symptom of the Institute's desertion of the residential appraiser.

 

[Fred]

How in the world does the Federal Government rationalize REQUIRING a state to issue a Temporary Practice Permit for other than an Federally Related Transaction?

Frank, They would have to "rationalize" it. Trying anything else might stub their toe on the interestate commerce clause of the Constitution.

 

[George Hatch]

I can imagine how a state licensing board would consider it a matter of some exposure to liability to license these individuals for this type of occupation. All that has to happen is for one such individual to slip back into their old ways and the state could conceivably be sued for issuing the license. If they knew about the past activity and didn't do anything to protect the public from a recurrence of that activity it wold be akin to condoning it, or at least the lawyers would argue it that way.

For example, everything I've ever heard about the chronic pedophiles suggests that there is no real 'cure' for their mindset and that a relapse is possible at any time. Sorry, but I think that when a person commits certain types of crimes they forfeit the right to pursue certain occupations. We wouldn't want our clergy or our teachers to have increased access to kids if they have a problem with kids; we wouldn't want convicted embezzlers to have increased access to company bank accounts as accountants, and we wouldn't want convicted theives to have access to a bank vault or a jewlery counter.

Besides, just because a state board has the option to decline an application doesn't automatically mean that a prior conviction of any type guarantees that the option will be exercised. It's just another tool, one that I think all of the states should be able to use when in their judgement it is necessary to do so.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Why should the State of Florida, for example, issue a TPP to an appraiser from New York or Michigan that happens to be in the state for the winter so he can do appraisals for estates, listings, eminent domain, etc? How, exactly, does that "protect the public" promote "public trust" in the real estate appraisal profession and ensure competency?

Let's flip that question around, Frank. Would you prefer a native Florida Hotel appraiser be allowed to appraise mineral rights under the Dustin Anticline offshore Florida? Or, a professional oil and gas appraiser experienced in Gulf Coastal geology from Houston, Tx? Would you allow people like Don Blauvelt (Florida) appraise Southroads Mall in Tulsa, OK or would you prefer someone in Tulsa who has never appraised anything bigger than a gas station? Don is an old OK native and specializes in such properties. Oil terminals, Rodeo Arenas, Feedlots, fish hatcheries, Luxury ranches, golf courses, etc. Does every state have an expert in these? Most people with far flung licenses are in a speciality that is far flung.

The instructor in a class I attended appraises large ranches. He appraises in CO, NM, SD, ND, MT, NB, and WY. I bet he knows his stuff regardless where he goes. His typical fee is 5 figures, too, i bet. He can afford to take his time and do a good job. On line services are also making it a smaller world. I can pull up tax info, search sales, map it and do so for every county in Oklahoma with a picture of the house in most counties.

I just looked up every mineral deed from the past 5 years in Montezuma Co., Colorado tonight. I guarantee that I know more about the mineral values and geology in that county than any certified appraiser there. That's 1,000 miles from my home.

Proximity is not everything. I entirely agree with the concept that every state should be required to accept reciprocity with any appraiser in good standing from their home state. If I spent 6 mo. in Fl and 6 mo. in Ar, i suspect I would be pretty familiar with the property values in each area I was living. But I suspect most people having problems reciprocating do so over large commercial properties. Some agencies are so slow it could take months to get a reciprocal license. Absurd. It ought to be automatic and take no more than 3 days. If a state Board of RE can issue a recip. Brokers lic. within 1 day, why can't the Appraisal board get one in a few days as well?