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Appraisal Management Employee Seeks Appraiser Advice...

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Blue1

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
Shelby,

I often wonder how you guys can stand the position you are in. It must be like being in a "pressure" cooker every day. Consider for a minute an appraiser's position. We are hired to provide an opinion of value. Most times that value has already been determined by the lender. If they don't get that value then their deal is lost or at least made less lucrative. We appraisers must adhere to ethical standards that clearly state we cannot provide a pre-determined value yet, we are given pre-determined values every day. Do you see how we appraisers are put "in the hot seat" at the very start of accepting a job? Besides you, we can receive calls from all the parties involved with just one assignment i.e. Realtors, borrowers, lenders and yes....AMC's. Since most of us have many assignments going at any one time, we are subject to a high number of calls per day, any one of which can take up a lot of time. "Updates" to AMC's are at the bottom of the list when you consider a Realtor screaming about your "value" or a job that you did that got reviewed and "slashed" or that 3rd re-inspection you have to do because the contractor never completed the work, or the borrower calling you because they didn't like your report, or the underwriter wanting "another comp" to support your value besides all the work you have yet to schedule. Just today, I had 25 calls on my ansewring machine and I was only gone for 4 hours. Sorry for the long post and I don't mean to "rag" on you or AMC's but I thought I'd show you a little slice of the "other side."
 

Tim Hicks (Texas)

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Texas
Shelby, let me try adressing you in your perspective. Lets say I perform an appraisal for your company. I e-mail the appraisal on Monday. Tuesday, I send you a fax asking for the status of my payment. Tuesday afternoon, I call you personally and ask you when I will receive my check. You are polite and say you will check into. Wednesday, I send you a fax asking for immediate response because my company policy expects payment within 48 hours of receipt of the appraisal. Wednesday afternoon, I call you and inquire about my check, you have an answer and tell me it will be 30 days. Thursday, I send you a fax asking for status of my payment. Thursday, afternoon I call you and inquire about the status of my payment. You remind that I will be paid in 30 days. I simply state I am following company policy and following orders. Friday, I send you a fax asking for status on my check. Friday afternoon, I call you and ask about my payment. I continue to do this for 30-60 days until I get paid. At what point would this irritate you? What if every appraiser you ordered an appraisal from did this? It is our company policy and we are just following orders, but I bet it would irritate you and you would lose your patience. In fact, if you don't mind sending me your appraiser data base, I will set up a system with all your appraisers so they can call you and fax you every day asking for payment status. I could set up a CAMC (Colecting from Appraisal Management Companies) that would facilitate the payment collections and create another middle man. Does any of this make sense? Precisely! We don't treat our vendors like this, so why should we accept it? Obviously, you can tell I don't do AMC work. Oh, I hear the "when it slows down, we will be crying for AMC work" line, but when it slows down for us it will slow down for you, too. Have you been around during a slow down? Large companies trim the fat rather quickly. That is precisley why I never recommend becoming an appraiser trainee. When the business slows down, the trainees get cut loose or get so little work they have to quit. I would bet AMC jobs will get thin too! I hope my litle scenario gives you insight to why appraisers get cranky over your calls. Have a nice day!
 
D

Dean House

Guest
No Tim, I dont believe i made a negative response. The negative responses were the ones who jumped all over Shelby. I understand appraisers are frustrated with the mangement companies, but i dont understand jumping on someone because they work for one. Shelby doesnt make the rules, Shelby is trying to make a living. If Shelby was an appraiser, mabye she (or he) would understand peoples frustrations more. If we worked at an AMC, maybe we would get to see the pressure that the employees are under from their bosses and clients. I know that most of the AMC stink, i happen to work with two of them, who not only do not bother me with stupid phonecalls, (I update their websites once a day), but they just about pay full price and within four weeks. I made it clear when i started doing their work what i expected from them, and what they should expect from me, and it works out pretty good.
Just for the record, i dont think i need to read Shelby's post again, being pretty comfortable with my level of intelligence i think i understood the point the first time i read it.
 

Richard Carlsen

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Licensed Appraiser
State
Michigan
Shelby

I don't have much time for this post because I have reports to write but just let me ask you to put the shoe on the other foot.

Shelby, will you work this next week for 60% of your normal wages in order to receive an appraisal from me?

Shelby, would you be upset, assuming your pay depended on your analysis and the amount of work generated, if I and 6 other appraisers called you right in the middle of you trying to concentrate on something, and asked how your day was going and what you were up to and if anything had changed from yesterday?

Shelby, would you be offended if we called and ask you to do something slightly illegal or something that would get you fired from your job?

Shelby, would you please tell me why it is necessary to have a "status report" on a daily basis when nothing has changed?

Shelby, will you tell me why it is necessary to get a phone call from you requesting a status report when we faxed you the current status change early this morning as you requested we do?

Shelby, why is it necessary to request to talk to the appraiser when the staff has the answers to the current status of all reports and can give you the answers?

Shelby, why is it that sometimes, I get the feeling that I, a person with 27 years experience in real estate am being treated like a McDonald's trainee by some 22 year old on the left coast who's idea of fun is listening to rap and doesn't know where Saskatoon is?

Shelby, why is it that AMC’s and their agents forget that what we have is a contractual business relationship and that I am not an employee of the AMC who can be pushed and told where to go and what to do at the whim of someone at the end of a phone line?

I generally like working with AMC’s. They are a source of orders for me. That’s what I do. Some of the nicest people I work with are at a couple of the AMC’s with whom I’ve established a long time realtionship. But that relationship is based on a mutual respect, trust and sound business practices. It is not based on confrontation and control and hounding.

You want appraisers to respond better? Try asking if there is a good time to call for updates. Try asking if a staff member can give the info. Try just asking if there is any change in status and get off the phone if it is necessary to call. Try understanding that you are more than likely interupting the appraisers concentration when you call which means that they will have to regroup their thinking and get back into their analysis.

Just a few thoughts Shelby.

And thank you for asking. It shows you are concerned with the job you are doing and that is the kind of person I want to do business with. Keep it up.
 

MARKETVALUE

Sophomore Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Georgia
Shelby,

Willing to take one for the team? Very brave to breach a very hot (and bothered i might add) topic with the crusty crew around here.

It pisses appraisers off because the entire business model is flawed and counter productive. As stated a couple of times above, what would your response be the first time i asked you if you would please cut your salary and benefits by 30%, how about 40%, or maybe %50? Now how about the tenth time I asked you? You still smiling? Doubt it.

Something you need to understand is most of the people here are independent, strong willed, strong minded, and most often have a more intense work ethic than anyone who roams the building you punch a clock in. Most own there own companies or facsimile of one. We didnt get to where we are by having to answer to a third party and jump through coporate policy handbooks. We have made our mark by not having people telling us how to run our business. Instead we have had to learn how to keep our clients happy at all times while adhereing to the codes and ethics which govern us and understanding that there is no such thing as job securtiy, its only secure to the extent of how much I am willing to sacrifice to keep my company afloat. It is a difficult juggle. Most of us are janitors, accountants, customer service reps, data entry, computer techs, collectors, coordinators, as well as being appraisers. Talk to my wife, I think she finally understands that mine and my parnters role in our company does not have a job description. I/We do EVERYTHING. And love every damn minute of it by the way. Becoming a full time status board for a low net client is not exactly something I am looking to pick up to add to my extensive list of job dutys above.

And here is a dirty little underlying secret. Everytime I have received an order from an AMC and turned down b/c of fee or finally accepted b/c you couldnt find anyone else to go to east bumble and agreed to my fee, I call your 'client'. You know the one that I am not supposed to have any contact with what so ever or risk be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Then I work my way through the system. That can take a while but when I do get the specific LO or the manager for the branch, we have a joint ===== session about how the AMC's are not helping the lender nor the appraiser and making the process longer and more difficult. (Its simple math its quicker to go from a to b then from a to c to b). If the mortgage company has a choice in who they can use then I solicit the hell out of my company and can guarentee a better product than you can provide. Because I can. And if they dont have a choice, then how about a bug in there ear for a state or a regional company to handle there business that runs circles around the efficiency of an AMC. Well I can provide that to, 100 a month? No problem, 200? no problem, Just keep them comming and I can put the right people in the right place.

The bottom line is this, and I know this sounds harsh, mean spirited and spiteful, but its the truth, AMC's are worthless. They know next to if not nothing about the appraisal process, the lending process, or any other salient points that would be helpful. What can you offer me? Seriously think about that. What can you offer me? Nothing. Nothing I can't do for myself but can make more profit at with less strings attached.

AMC's are an insane idea made possible by somebody who has a much larger brain and bank roll than I do and has the luxury of cashing his checks rather than rant and rave on some message board on a random morning.

I gotta go appraise something.

BTW--Thanks for the leads. Maybe AMC's are alot more profitable than any of us thought..................




MRM





One more thing, Advice not ridicule. If you do not enjoy your job go do something else. There is entirely too many good positions to put yourself into than to stay in a position you do not enjoy. You will never be happy unless you love your job. You will spend more time at your job than you will spend doing anything else in life other than maybe sleeping. You will see your job more than your spouse, your kids, your hobby, your tv, etc.....It just doesnt make sense not to enjoy what you do.
 

Shelby Shannon

Thread Starter
Freshman Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2002
A Response from Mr. Shelby Shannon:

Thank you for all of your input :lol: . However, those of you who attacked me personally and were nasty are only doing one thing: perpetuating the generalized strereotype that appraisers are rude and arrogant. I never said all appraisers are rude to me, nor did I post this message to try to understand why appraisers don't like AMCs. I know why they don't like AMCs...I've had it beat into my head everyday for the past year. If I were an appraiser, I would not work for an AMC. Many of you have valid points...the pay takes too long, yes, the repetive calls are pointless, yes. What I don't understand is why I am barked at constantlly when all anyone has to do is say "No." We are put under an extreme amount of pressure every day...only there's one difference...we don't get paid hundreds of dollars a day to put up with it....you do. It seems like alot of you feel like nasty treatment of people who work for AMCs is justified...I think if you choose to do business w/ AMCs you should give and get respect. If you are an appraiser and you chose not to do business w/ AMCs...be professional and respectful anyway. If you choose not to, you are only continuing the cycle of negativity.
 

Tim Hicks (Texas)

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Texas
Dean, good for you for working for two tolerable AMC's. You sound like one of the the lucky few. I never insinuated you don't have the intelligence to read and understand. The point I was making that sometimes the frame of mind I am in changes the way I read posts. I read that post twice. It made made angrier the second time. Shelby was doing exactly what she was complaining about. Ranting and raving about the way he/she is treated and generalizing. His/Her post is no different than his/her complaint. You defended working for AMC's. He/She does not acknowledge that some appraisers treat her decently and kindly. Thats because the good phone calls are quick, sweet and dismissed. If Shelby truly did not expect rebuttals and challenges to his/her comments, then he/she posted on the wrong forum.

As for disgust for this forum, this is an open forum with opinions from opposite sides of the country and opposite sides of every issue. This is an appraiser's forum with some very hostile attitudes. It is educational on many different fronts. I learn many things. Some things I would never say to anyone, but I "learn"other appraiser's perspectives and attitudes" and I don't agree with them many times. I challenge them many times. I don't get insulted when they don't have the same opinion. They are just wrong and haven't accepted it yet! I find a lot of humor in the posts on this forum and much of it is not meant to be humorous.
 

MARKETVALUE

Sophomore Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Georgia
We dont get paid hundreds of dollars a day to put up with it....you do

Oh no. Shelby you dont yet realize what you just did. If I had the time I would tell you now, but just wait for the posts to follow.

Uncalled comment for the day but necessitated by your blatant lack of a grasp on reality and evident by your liberal, anti-capitalism mind set.......................................No wonder you work for an AMC.

MRM
 

Jim Bartley

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
Virginia
This is my take on it. An appraisal has a market value of xx. If you really provide a service over and above what an individual appraiser can offer, then why don't you charge for it? You are just a middleman, pure and simple. Why should I split my fee with you? If your service has value, then ask the client to pay for it. By the way, I do work for some AMC's, but they pay at or very close to my normal fee. To me its like paying a finders fee. Its the really cheap ones that get me. The ones that want you to do a 1004 for $180, about 2/3 the normal fee in my area.

Another point I would make is that you people have basically ruined this business by accepting per trash. I can't believe some of the crap I see done by unsupervised "trainees" or the fast Eddy's that run boiler room appraisal shops. There doesn't seem to be any real quality control within the AMC industry. If you guys were doing REAL reviews, you wouldn't accept the crap you get, but then If he/she hits the number at your fee, what do you care?
 
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