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Appraisal Management Employee Seeks Appraiser Advice...

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Randy Beigh

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
I think part of Shelby's concerns are rudeness and there is a point in that regard. It would be better if the appraiser was to just say no in a polite and professional manner. There is no justification for rudeness.

Shelby, I suggest that sometimes calls from AMC's are not much further up the ladder than a telemarketer. And that may be the reason for the rudeness. Just a thought.
 

Steve Owen

Elite Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Missouri
Shelby said:

why do most of them waste their time telling me a story I've heard nine thousand times before?

I could ask the same question.

My one and only experience working for an AMC:

They were in a hurry and the owner was from out of town, so I agreed to go on Thanksgiving Friday. The property was unusual so it took all weekend to get it done. Monday, while I was putting together the final analysis, they were calling asking where the report was (they didn't call over the weekend, because they don't work over the weekend). In spite of the unusual character of the property, the deal worked (at least partly because of my research and taking the needed time to document my information). The deal closed in early December. Thirty days later, when I had not been paid I called and was transferred to the AMC's accounting department. The person there rather rudely told me that because the deal closed in December, she didn't get the paperwork until January and I would be paid thirty days after the first of February, "because that's the way our system works."

By the way, I didn't cut my fee for these guys, but got my usual fee (eventually). I usually don't work for AMC's because of all the stuff listed above; I told the company in question to take me off of their vendor list since they can't pay in a timely manner.

It doesn't have a lot to do with how busy appraisers are right now, IMHO. I would work on a garbage truck before I'd make a career out of working for you guys.
 

Caterina Platt

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
New Mexico
I have to agree with above posts regarding just who in the process should pay the AMC's fee. I don't mind paying a referral for a client I didn't have before. But not up to half my fee. That is bordering on ridiculous and it is an exploitation of the appraiser. Wanna really know who makes the big bucks in this industry Shelby? It's not you, it's not the appraiser, it's your client. Your client who wants you to put the squeeze on the provider of a service. The lender benefits from you service, the lender needs to pay for your service. Period.

Appraisals are unique to every property. They are not a homogenous product that can be mass produced at a lower cost. Mc Donalds and Walmart negotiate lower prices with suppliers due to their volume of purchases. This only works because the product assembly line can be tweaked here and there, corners are cut, material costs are cut.....and mostly because the product is a single item which can be duplicated over and over. Homes and their appraisals aren't like that. In the end, all it means is we would recieve more orders, more status calls and work harder for less money. The lender benefits with higher income and lower costs, the AMC prospers, and the appraiser pays them. WRONG!
 

wyecoyote

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Professional Status
Gvmt Agency, FNMA, HUD, VA etc.
State
Washington
"No." We are put under an extreme amount of pressure every day...only there's one difference...we don't get paid hundreds of dollars a day to put up with it....you do.

Shelby,

This was a little off base concerning AMC's look at it this way. Myself and a partner own are in together as a LLC. We split fees by 50% paid to appraiser and 50% to the company. Yes at the end we get a distribution of funds. The last AMC that called said that they would bay $175 for a full URAR report. $175 * 50% = $87.50 paid to the appraiser. It typically takes about 8 hours to complete a URAR that would mean that hourly the appraiser is making $10.94 per hour. This is roughly less than half of what we make getting full fees. That 8 hours does not include the time of putting up with the phone calls from the AMC for status and the daily faxes. We also get paid from the regular clients in 2-3 weeks on reports not 30-90 days or more from AMC's.

Yes I agree with you that people should not be rude but professional on the phone regarding any phone call.

Yet look at the above math what type of appraisers are you getting to work for you at the AMC? I consider that there are about 3 types of appraisers that you are getting. 1. The appraiser who is just starting out and needs any work to continue. 2. The appraiser who has been black balled from good clients because of various infractions and problems with the state. 3. The appraiser working at a sweat shop as a traine. Where the owner doesn't care but simply looks at the more that is put out the more money he gets.

Are you really getting profesional reports at the AMC for fees like this. Probably not, unless it is someone that is in the first category that is still trying to get work from local clientel at full fees.

Ryan
 

BigBlueGA

Junior Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2002
Professional Status
Certified General Appraiser
State
Georgia
MARKETVALUE, I'm printing out that post and hanging it on my wall.

Amen brotha...
 
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
When the first AMC appeared in the 1980's (Lenders Services), I said no and I've been saying no ever since. Lenders Services was started by an appraiser, and I'm assuming that most today are also owned and managed by appraisers, so there's plenty of blame to spread around. However, at this point in time, appraisers should just say "no thank you".

The only other comment I can make is maybe you should show your boss the responses you have received, and maybe he or she will reconsider company policy. If you feel this way after 8 months in the business, try to imagine how appraisers feel after more than 20 years in the business (based on the responses it should be pretty clear how they feel).
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Professional Status
Retired Appraiser
State
Florida
Mr. Shelby Shannon wrote:
... we don't get paid hundreds of dollars a day to put up with it....you do.

IF the AMC paid ALL of my business expenses, I'd be happy to accept those low fees. Obviously, you have no idea what it costs to run a business. AMCs perform little if any service for the Appraiser. Why don't you collect your 'fees' from your own clients - the lenders. I really don't know of anyone that actually likes the services of an AMC - except the owners of the AMC. The loan officers I talk to that have to use an AMC hate it, appraisers hate it..... just what good are they? Really.
 
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Mr. Shelby Shannon wrote:
... we don't get paid hundreds of dollars a day to put up with it....you do.

IF the AMC paid ALL of my business expenses, I'd be happy to accept those low fees. Obviously, you have no idea what it costs to run a business. AMCs perform little if any service for the Appraiser. Why don't you collect your 'fees' from your own clients - the lenders. I really don't know of anyone that actually likes the services of an AMC - except the owners of the AMC. The loan officers I talk to that have to use an AMC hate it, appraisers hate it..... just what good are they? Really.


Pam:

Gee wiz, you must been paying bills between your first posting (relative calm and polite) and last posting. How about those accounts receivable, past due, collections, etc .......

The answer to your question is AMCs are good for NOTHING.

Stay cool and calm down there in Florida, the day is almost over.


,
 

Randy Beigh

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Pamela

I have been a user of AMC's(LSI and TRW) and there are several reasons for lender companies to use an AMC. One reason is to take the control away from LO's. Go figure that they wouldn't like it. :) In other words, they aren't a very reliable source.

The company must like them, even though they are aware there are problems.

I work for some AMC's and have few problems with them. To me, they are a source of diversity for this company and they are like any other customer to me. I work for some and don't for others, and others, I have fired. No different from any other customer.
 

Joe Moore

Junior Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2002
Professional Status
Appraisal Management Company
State
Pennsylvania
I think it's interesting that appraisers who have experience working from a national perspective understand all too well the value of a well run, ethical management company, while it seems to be very difficult for more regional appraisers (and loan officers dealing with local markets) to understand the signifcant advantages.

I think if more appraisers approached management companies from the same perspective as they would any client everyone would sleep better. If the fee is too low for what you're being asked to do, then just say no. One thing to consider though is that by being rude you most likely aren't going to get future calls for work from that source. Being rude chases your client towards the other appraiser down the street at best, or appraisal alternatives at worse. Maybe the fee was too low. Maybe not. But fees are not consistent anywhere in the country, and maybe after they've tried a few other sources you could be the one getting the work at your fee despite saying no the first time. However if you're simply rude about it, I wouldn't call you back. I'd rather pay someone else more.

Griping about AMC's isn't going to solve anything without looking at the big picture first though. The real problem out there is the poor quality and out and out fraud, with the sad facts being demonstrated through the obvious numbers of appraisers more focused on profit than ethics and honesty, as evident in the rampant fraud in Baltimore, Saint Louis, North Carolina, Florida, and other parts of the country. This is compounded by the fact that is there no standard, license, or designation that can guarantee competent, ethical, professional work and service on the part of the independent appraiser outside of a management system. The larger lenders recognize that allowing the local loan officer or broker to pick and choose the "right" appraiser doesn't work.

Lots to think about in these interesting times.

Joe
 
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